Fear Free Childbirth Podcast with Alexia Leachman 4a1k1f

In today’s episode, I am ed by Heather to dive into her incredible journey from a fear-filled first birth to two positive and empowering experiences. Heather shares her deep emotional work in overcoming the negative feelings from her traumatic first birth and the steps she took to prepare herself mentally and emotionally for her second pregnancy. From therapy to Emotion Code, to Head Trash Clearance and hypnobirthing, Heather explores the various tools she used to transform her mindset and approach childbirth with a newfound sense of confidence. Key Points Discussed: Traumatic First Birth Experience: Heather opens up about her initial birth experience, which left her feeling fearful and exhausted. She realised that her emotional baggage and negative energy had a significant impact on her birth. This realisation became the catalyst for her transformative journey towards healing and empowerment. Emotional Work and Preparation for Second Birth: Heather undertook various methods to prepare for her second birth, including therapy, Emotion Code, Head Trash Clearance, and hypnobirthing. By clearing trapped emotions and healing herself emotionally, she was able to let go of fear and create a positive birthing environment. Tuning In and Connecting with Herself: Throughout her pregnancy, Heather focused on self-care and cultivating her feminine energy. She discovered the power of connecting with her body through movements such as birth dance, a Middle Eastern practice that strengthens muscles and centres the mind. This allowed her to embrace her pregnancy and tap into her innate strength as a woman. Mindset Shift and Empowering Second Birth: Heather’s mindset shift played a crucial role in her second birth experience. She approached the process with confidence, uninhibited by fear, and embraced the sensations as a natural part of birth. She utilised the tools she had acquired and received invaluable from her doula, ultimately delivering her baby in a positive and empowering way. Postpartum and Integration: Heather talks about the importance of postpartum and she recognised that her healing journey continued beyond the birth. With the love and guidance of her husband and parents, she navigated the chaotic postpartum period, and was able to balance it along with moving house and doing renovations. Through out all this, she realised she wanted to help to empower women and helping them realise the beauty and potential of birth, just as she had experienced. Heather’s inspiring journey is a wonderful tale that shows us quite plainly that with the right tools, , and a positive mindset, it is possible to have a birth experience that is both beautiful and empowering. Tune in to this episode and discover the techniques and mindset shifts that enabled Heather to go from a place of trauma and fear to being able to embrace the journey of birth with strength and empowerment. Birth has the potential to be a transformative and life-changing experience, and by preparing emotionally and mentally, you can create the empowering birth experience you want.   Resources Mentioned During the Episode During this episode, the following resources were mentioned: 1. Therapy: Heather sought the of a therapist to work through the trauma of her first birth experience and prepare emotionally for her second birth. Therapy is a valuable resource for processing emotions, overcoming fears, and building a positive mindset for childbirth. 2. Emotion Code: Heather used the Emotion Code as a tool to release trapped emotions and create a more balanced emotional state. This resource helps individuals clear emotional baggage and negative energy, promoting a sense of well-being and empowerment during pregnancy and birth. 3. Head Trash Clearance: This is the DIY self-healing method I developed to overcome my tokophobia and that I share in both my books; Fearless Birthing and Clear Your Head Trash. I also have created plenty of self-healing products to help you on your healing journey which you can find in my Fear Free Childbirth shop and my Clear Your Head Trash shop. 4. Hypnobirthing: Heather adopted hypnobirthing techniques as part of her preparation for childbirth. Hypnobirthing involves practicing relaxation, visualisation, and self-hypnosis to reduce fear and anxiety, and promote a positive and calm birth experience. 5. Birth dance: Heather practiced birth dance, which involves using Middle Eastern moves to strengthen muscles and create a sense of grounding and connection with the body. This resource helped Heather stay active and centered during her pregnancy, promoting a positive mindset for birth. 6. Doula : Heather hired a doula to provide continuous emotional and physical during labor and birth. A doula is a valuable resource for offering guidance, comfort, and advocacy, enhancing the birthing person’s confidence and well-being. 7. Positive birth experiences podcast: Heather listened to a podcast that shared positive birth stories, which inspired and uplifted her mindset toward childbirth. Listening to positive birth experiences can be a valuable resource for shaping a positive mindset and building confidence for one’s own birth journey. 8. Birth course: Heather took a birth course during her second trimester to further educate herself on positive birth experiences. A birth course is a resource for learning about childbirth, coping techniques, and empowerment, providing valuable knowledge and preparation for the birthing person and their partner. 9. Lactation consultant: After giving birth, Heather received from a lactation consultant to ensure successful breastfeeding. A lactation consultant is a valuable resource for providing guidance, troubleshooting breastfeeding challenges, and promoting a positive breastfeeding experience for the mother and baby. About the Guest Heather, originally from a small town in New York, ventured out to Utah for college. During a summer sales job in Texas, she crossed paths with her future husband, who was also pursuing his education. Both Heather and her husband are of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and hold strong spiritual beliefs. Growing up in a culture that emphasized the importance of having a family, Heather had always been aware of the challenges of parenthood. However, as she embarked on her journey, she discovered how deeply these negative aspects had affected her mindset. She obtained a degree in food science and eventually settled in Salt Lake City, finding both a place to rent and a job in her field. Heather is a life-long dancer and a university graduate with a Food Science degree. As a natural-birth mama and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, she strongly believes in God’s divine design of a woman’s journey. During her first childbirth experience, Heather encountered physical smoothness but was emotionally traumatised. Despite taking a Hypnobirthing course, she realised the impact of unhealed emotional baggage on the birthing process. This realisation prompted her to embark on extensive research and emotional healing to prepare for a positive second birth. Heather’s second birth proved to be an incredibly empowering and positive experience, transforming her life in profound ways. Inspired by her journey, she started sharing her insights with other women, witnessing their positive transformations as well. Specialising in helping women navigate the various facets of womanhood, from monthly cycles to fertility, pregnancy, and motherhood, Heather focuses on moving beyond western cultural conditioning, releasing inhibiting emotions, and fostering a deep connection with their bodies. Her coaching approach combines thought-work with emotional healing and practical lifestyle . Covering a range of topics such as period pain, fertility, discomfort in pregnancy, positive birth preparation, fulfillment in motherhood, weight-loss journeys, chronic pain, and sexual healing, Heather’s unique coaching style draws from her diverse experiences at university, her involvement in dance and music, her knowledge of food and nutrition, her spirituality and meditation practices, and her use of emotional release tools, including Non Personal Awareness (NPA). Clients working with Heather find , encouragement, and excitement in their personal journeys. Be sure to check Heather’s Rising Woman brand and follow her inspirational journey on Instagram. Episode Time Stamps 00:00 Heather’s traumatic birth experience and emotional recovery. 04:46 Fear and family experiences shaped birth beliefs. 07:06 Positive birth experience through Hypnobirthing class. 11:32 ionate about helping others prepare for birth. 15:51 Baby born after intense pushing, exhaustion afterward. 19:25 Hard adjustment, fear, pain, dark place 23:14 Did not forget birth, ed every bit. 24:31 Discovering perspectives on positive birth experiences. 28:18 Improved pregnancy through changed eating, emotional clearing. 32:07 Embracing womanhood through birth dance is incredible. 34:30 Balanced preparation, hired doula to clear fears. 38:26 Appreciated her helpful phrases during labor. 42:37 Empowering birth led to positive life changes. 44:39 Believe in growth, change, and helping others. 49:28 Fear Free Childbirth podcast for fearless motherhood.

In this episode, I sit down with the inspirational Celeste to delve deep into her transformative journey of overcoming fears and phobias related to childbirth and pregnancy. Throughout the episode, Celeste candidly shares her profound and life-altering experiences, providing invaluable insights for anyone navigating similar challenges. This episode is for you if you want to have a peep under the bonnet to better understand what it looks like EXACTLY to clear your head trash (tokophobia, anxiety or indeed anything else) using Head Trash Clearance. We get down to brass tacks and leave no stone unturned. At the heart of Celeste’s journey is her struggle with tokophobia, a deep-seated fear of childbirth and pregnancy that extended beyond the realm of motherhood, infiltrating her daily life and relationships. What unfolds in this episode is her amazing journey of self-discovery, empowerment, and healing, as Celeste takes us through her journey of clearing the fears and anxieties that were contributing to her tokophobia and anxiety. Through a very candid conversation, Celeste shares how she initially grappled with her fear, with symptoms ranging from anxiety attacks triggered by the mere thought of pregnancy to physical manifestations of tingling in her arms and legs, burping, and spontaneous crying during her shifting process. Over the span of 6-7 transformative months, she experiences a significant shift, moving from a space of anxiety and fear to a newfound sense of peace and calm. Her journey of clearing head trash and addressing deep-seated fears takes her on a path of self-realization, lending her the clarity and insight needed to navigate her fears and emerge stronger on the other side. It’s incredible to see where Celeste is today, and I hope that her journey inspires you on your healing journey. Resources Mentioned During the Episode: The following resources were instrumental in Celeste’s journey of tackling her fears and phobias related to childbirth and pregnancy. Clear Your Head Trash book “Fearless Birthing” book Head Trash Clearance healing modality Fear Free Childbirth Podcast and other content on the website Tokophobia Clearance Group with Alexia Clearance Club – self-healing hip If you’re interested in learning more about these resources, you can find them through the Fear Free Childbirth podcast and on this website. About the Guest: Celeste Rollins is from East Tennessee in the US. This past year, she put the dots together and learned her lifelong fears concerning pregnancy and childbirth translated to an actual phobia (Tokophobia). Not one to sit ively when introspective growth is needed, she sent herself on a quest for knowledge, answers, and solutions. Eventually her journey led her to Alexia Leachman’s podcasts, the HTC Method, and the Tokophobia Program–all of which were game changers for her. Episode Time Stamps: 00:00 “DIY solution to mental and emotional challenges.” 03:47 Celeste achieves remarkable healing and consciousness shift. 06:55 Questioning desire for children, exploring underlying reasons. 10:44 Connected dots revealed deeper head trash issues. 14:14 Identify and clear your head trash method. 18:42 Clearing head trash can feel like difficulty. 24:19 Navigating and clearing head trash for wellbeing. 27:27 Lack of control over body functions realization. 28:21 Uncontrollable bodily functions, especially for women. 33:29 Clearance journey leads to calmer, happier life. 36:58 Fear of pregnancy and childbirth causes panic. 37:49 Struggling with friends’ pregnancies, anxiety, and clarity. 41:15 Impressive transformation in just 6 months. 46:37 Reducing stress and improving sleep with self-care. 48:38 Navigating head clearing journey with lightheartedness. 53:29 Fear Free Childbirth: Podcast and Mama Ship.

In today’s episode, I have a thought-provoking conversation with Elizabeth Tidwell, a menstrual cycle coach, as she shares her journey of healing and embracing the power of her menstrual cycle. I wanted to talk about periods because even though they’re not front and centre of the pregnancy and birth experience – they are! We obsess over when they stop – are we pregnant??? – and then we obsess over when they start again. They are a HUGE part of this. And, more importantly, I wanted to talk about them because I don’t think that we appreciate our periods much. There’s lots of negativity around them and so I wanted to flip the script and help you to LOVE your period and tap into their power. Here are some of the things you can hear as part of this conversation: Resolving Childhood Trauma: Elizabeth opens up about her personal experience with childhood trauma and how it impacted her menstrual cycle. Through healing this trauma, she discovered that it had a profound effect not only on her cycle but on various aspects of her life. Elizabeth believes that addressing trauma is crucial to breaking free from negative cycles and embracing our menstrual cycles as sources of strength and wisdom. Menarche Kits and Breaking the Cycle of Shame: I love that Elizabeth has created menarche kits and creates resources for us to discuss periods with openly. Elizabeth emphasises the importance of releasing the shame and trauma surrounding puberty for the next generation. By providing education and during this transformative phase, we can set the foundation for young girls to navigate their menstrual cycles with confidence and self-acceptance. The Connection Between the Lunar Cycle and Menstrual Cycle: Is this a myth? Maybe. We discuss the connection between the lunar cycle and the menstrual cycle. While there are different viewpoints on this connection, Elizabeth points out that light-sensitive hormones might have caused women to sync up with the moon cycle in the past. However, modern lifestyles with artificial light can disrupt hormonal rhythms. Despite the scientific explanation, Elizabeth emphasises the energetic significance of aligning with the moon cycle, giving it a sense of specialness. Understanding Menstrual Cycle Awareness: Elizabeth talks us through the concept of menstrual cycle awareness, which involves being conscious of the different phases of our cycle and how they impact our daily experiences. I struggle with this big time! Hormonal fluctuations throughout the cycle lead to varying emotions and reactions. Understanding this awareness can enhance communication, help avoid conflicts, and enable us to have a better understanding of our bodies. And for those entering perimenopause – very interesting! Healing Trauma and Its Impact on Menstrual Health: Trauma, whether big or small, can have a profound impact on our menstrual cycles. Elizabeth tells us how trauma can manifest in fears and phobias related to pregnancy and birth, body image issues, and fears of losing control. By healing from trauma, we can potentially resolve related physical and emotional issues, leading to a better relationship with our bodies and our cycles. Fertility Awareness and Birth Control: Elizabeth shares insights into fertility awareness and birth control. She suggests considering fertility biomarkers rather than relying solely on apps and algorithms. We know that stress and cortisol levels can impact fertility, so stressing about trying to conceive is probably going to hinder fertility. This is why she emphasises the importance of self-care during menstruation so that we can shift our we feel and honour our bodies. I hope that listening to Elizabeth as she takes us on her transformative journey of embracing and loving her menstrual cycle can help you to learn to LOVE your periods. By addressing trauma, understanding our cycles, and cultivating self-awareness, we can unlock the immense power and wisdom that our bodies hold, and help our daughters to do the same. Resources Mentioned During the Episode: Here are some additional resources mentioned during the podcast conversation: 1. Book: “Wild Power” – This book transformed Elizabeth’s perspective on periods and is recommended for anyone looking to embrace and love their menstrual cycle. 2. Club Red – This is Elizabeth’s company that offers period self-care subscription boxes, menarche kits, workshops, and menstrual cycle coaching. You can find more information on their website. About Elizabeth Elizabeth is a woman who, four years ago, left the religious community she grew up in due to the traumatic messaging she received about her identity and femininity. After giving birth to a baby girl, Elizabeth realised she wanted her daughter’s female experience to be different from the societal shame surrounding female bodies and menstruation. She overheard a friend recommending a book on menstrual cycles, which piqued her interest. Despite not having her period due to an IUD inserted by her OB after giving birth, Elizabeth started to notice that she was missing something natural in her life. Intrigued by the idea of living by cycles and being connected to nature, she began exploring this concept further. Elizabeth Tidwell is a holistic menstrual cycle coach who helps women and menstruators learn vital body literacy and facilitates a deeper relationship between menstruators and their cycles, bodies, and whole selves. She is a graduate of Red School’s Menstruality Leadership Program and Lisa de Jong’s Menstrual Cycle Coaching & Facilitation Professional Training. As a former university educator, Elizabeth is ionate about bringing menstrual cycle awareness to both her local community through live events and the broader international community through individual client work, virtual workshops, and group coaching programs. She prioritizes nervous system regulation and personal agency, empowering her clients in a trauma-informed environment. She’s also a mom and the founder of My Club Red, a hormone-friendly period self-care subscription box designed to transform menstruators’ periods into a time of self-nurture, radical rest, and self-connecting ritual. Connect with her: Website: https://myclubred.com/ Social Media: https://www.instagram.com/myclubred/  https://www.facebook.com/myclubred Service: 1:1 Holistic Menstrual Cycle Coaching Episode Time Stamps: 02:53 Left religious community, questioned female identity, embraced cycles. 04:14 Transformative book leads to period empowerment business. 08:07 Trauma affects menstrual cycles, awareness helps. 12:05 Trauma around birth, fear of tokophobia. 17:10 Period kits for girls with education included. 20:18 Using 7 words: Cycle alignment with lunar cycles, is it true? 21:32 Menstrual cycles, moon sync, hormones, artificial light. 27:00 Stress, nutrition, and endocrine disruptors affect fertility. Subscription box helps with hormone-friendly self-care. 28:43 Period: Connect, honor, and appreciate your body. 32:23 Menstrual cycles communicate overall wellness, impacting emotions. 36:36 Hormonal health imbalances affect overall well-being. 39:18 First period follows fertile phase; beware pregnancy. 42:01 Breastfeeding can suppress ovulation but not always. 47:01 Period self-care subscription box, menarche kits, workshops, coaching – myclubred.com.

In this episode, we dive into a powerful and inspiring conversation with my guest, Steph Bennet, as she shares her experience of choosing to solo parent. Finding Balance in Work and Motherhood Steph’s story is a testament to the strength and resilience of women who navigate both career success and motherhood on their own . us as we explore the challenges, triumphs, and joys of Steph’s unique journey into motherhood. Steph made the decision to prioritise a career that allowed her to have control over her work without judgment. She is a strong advocate for not compromising but optimising her life to create a balanced and fear-free environment for herself and her daughter. As a managing director, Steph initially faced challenges in balancing work and parenting, but she gradually found strategies to create flexibility and adapt to hybrid and flexible working arrangements. Her story highlights the ongoing need for better and understanding in the workplace for working mothers. Here are some of the things we chatted about… The Challenges of Being a Solo Parent: Steph’s journey began with a clear vision of becoming a mother, even if she couldn’t find a partner. She discusses her decision to explore single parenthood and the concerns she had about the physical and emotional aspects of raising a child on her own. Choosing the Path of Insemination: Steph underwent tests at a fertility clinic and discovered that IVF was not suitable for her. She decided to pursue IUI, or intrauterine insemination, as an alternative. She shares her experience of choosing a sperm donor from an online catalog based on various factors, including health information and personality traits. Balancing Work and Motherhood: Steph candidly discusses the challenges and rewards of being a working mother. She emphasises the importance of setting boundaries and not overworking, while also acknowledging the lack of respect and flexibility that many working parents face in the workplace. French vs. British Parenting Styles: Steph and I compare parenting styles in and the UK. They explore the benefits of allowing children to be independent and figure things out on their own, as well as the challenges of French school holidays for working parents. The Journey of Conscious Parenting: Steph highlights the importance of allowing children to make their own decisions and learn from their own mistakes. She shares her desire to give her daughter the freedom to choose her own interests and create her own path in life. Steph candidly addresses these key questions shaping her solo parenting journey: How did Steph’s previous health concerns and epilepsy diagnosis affect her decision to become a solo parent? In what ways did Steph’s career choice allow her to have more control over her work and spend more time with her daughter? Steph mentions the importance of not compromising but optimising her life. How does this mindset play a role in her journey as a solo parent? How does the and childcare system in compare to that in the UK, and what impact does it have on working mothers? What are some organisations and campaigns that are working towards ing working moms in the workplace, and what more needs to be done? How has the COVID-19 pandemic affected the experiences of pregnant women and new mothers, especially those who are solo parenting? What are some of the challenges Steph faced as a solo parent, and how did she navigate them? How did she find and emotional connection during the early stages of parenting? Steph discusses the importance of allowing children to be independent and make their own decisions. How can parents balance setting boundaries with fostering independence in their children? Steph mentions her new podcast, “For the Love of Kids.” How does her experience as a solo parent influence the topics and themes covered in her podcast? Steph’s journey from considering adoption to choosing IUI as a solo parent is unique. How did she approach the process of selecting a sperm donor, and how did she envision her daughter’s future relationship with her donor father? Steph’s story of choosing to solo parent is an incredible testament to the power of following one’s dreams and embracing the possibilities of motherhood. Her journey highlights the need for increased for working mothers in the workplace and challenges conventional norms surrounding parenting and work-life balance. Resources Mentioned During the Episode During this episode, the following resources were mentioned: Steph’s podcast, “For the Love of Kids“: Steph mentions her own podcast called “For the Love of Kids,” where she explores the experiences of parents and non-parents alike in navigating the challenges and joys of parenthood. It is available on Spotify. About the Stephanie Jane Bennett Stephanie is a marketing and social media consultant with twenty years of experience and has worked for some incredible brands during that time including Nespresso, Lavazza, Pernod Ricard, Google, Gatwick Airport, RSPCA, Harrods, Hotels.com, and Great Ormond Street Hospital. Now a freelance consultant she provides marketing and social media services, website development, produces podcasts, is a mentor, trainer and business development strategist. She’s also launched a parenting podcast, ‘For the Love of Kids’ to share her experiences and those of others; a ion project inspired by her pursuit of becoming a solo parent and raising a toddler. Steph is never one to shy away from following her instincts. She believes in never settling for anything less than butterflies and has found real purpose in working on the things that really matter to her in life. In 2009, Steph, a woman in her late twenties, began to feel out of sorts and decided to visit the doctors. After undergoing blood tests and scans, she made an unexpected discovery – she had a low-grade, benign brain tumor. While her doctors assured her it could be monitored with regular scans, they cautioned her to be vigilant for major symptoms such as seizures. This revelation marked the starting point of Steph’s journey. Connect with her: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniejanebennett/ Episode Time Stamps: 00:31 Solo parenting: working mother’s journey and challenges. 04:49 Good chance to fight for pregnancy, tested. 08:43 Can I physically do it? Major concerns. Emotional stability, financial practicality. Blind spot. Living situation. 11:42 One shot, IUI process, watch and wait. 14:58 Selected sperm donor had diverse mixed heritage. 17:15 Early pregnancy cravings led to immediate test. 20:39 Partner absent during pregnancy, friend allowed once, from remote friend. 23:31 Preparing my house, typing, attempted induction, contractions. 28:24 Extended hospital stay after c-section; baby’s health concerns. 30:50 Parents feel pressure to be perfect, adapt. 35:59 Working mothers face unfair treatment and disrespect. 39:26 Taking control of work, family, and guilt. 40:58 Brilliant woman leader inspires other women. 44:42 Changing laws and societal shifts are impacting lives. 49:44 Balance, selling , studying French, Erasmus, memories, unique, productivity. 51:36 Children need boredom to foster creativity. 56:23 Little gestures build confidence; independent young woman. 57:28 Parenthood changes perspective and impacts all aspects.

Birth is a profound and transformative experience, but unfortunately, conflicts and disagreements within the birth space can sometimes overshadow the joy and empowerment that should be at the forefront. Navigating Conflict in the Birth Space In this episode of the Fear Free Childbirth podcast, Jenny Koslow, a perinatal educator with four decades of experience, sheds light on the issues of conflict and tension within the birth world. Understanding the Birth Space: Jenny begins by sharing her wealth of knowledge and stories gathered from birth workers around the globe. She highlights the conflicting views and struggles that exist between different professions within the birth world, such as midwives, lactation consultants, and doulas. These conflicts often arise from differing ideologies stemming from the biomedical and naturalistic sides of childbirth. From home births to highly medicalized hospital births, the spectrum of choices and opinions can be quite divisive. The Influence of Birth Settings: The conversation then delves into the impact of various birth settings. Jenny discusses how midwives typically handle vaginal births with minimal intervention, but the c-section rates in private clinics in many countries are unacceptably high. Public hospitals, where most people give birth, often face issues with and the need for less judgment towards healthcare providers working in these systems. There is also a sense of resentment among professionals like midwives, obstetrical nurses, and doulas, especially in countries like Spain and other Latin American nations. Examining the Roles of Birth Workers: Jenny addresses the challenges within the doula movement, including the need for more professional training and regulation. While doulas carry immense emotional weight, they may not bear the same level of medical responsibility as healthcare providers. This discrepancy, coupled with differences in income and work dynamics, can sometimes lead to tension and dissatisfaction among birth workers. Finding Common Ground: Despite these conflicts, Jenny emphasises the importance of recognising the positive work being done by individuals in the system and avoiding generalisations. She highlights positive initiatives in different countries, demonstrating that change can come from a combination of different approaches rather than extreme views. The conversation explores the crucial need for effective communication, formation of personal relationships, and acknowledgement of the contributions made by individuals across the birth spectrum. Promoting Unity in the Birth Space: Positive changes often stem from top-down leadership but acknowledges that frontline caregivers need more . The conversation explores the imbalances in authority, challenges faced by professionals within institutionalized childbirth, and the importance of respect and recognition. The episode also delves into the role of birth education, the impact of the internet on preparation, and the different priorities individuals have when it comes to their birthing experience. Jenny tackles these burning questions: How does conflict in the birth space impact the overall birthing experience for families? What are some common sources of conflict between different professions in the birth world, such as midwives, lactation consultants, and doulas? How do different birth settings, like private clinics, public hospitals, birthing centers, and home births, contribute to the conflict in the birth world? What are some potential solutions to reduce the conflict between birth professionals and improve collaboration in maternity healthcare? What role does fear play in creating conflict and backlash in the birth space? How can fear be addressed and alleviated to create a more positive birth experience? How can authorities and decision-makers in the birth industry birth professionals and foster unity and respect among different roles? What are some potential drawbacks of the current doula movement, and how can it be improved and regulated to create a more professional environment? What can be done to bridge the gap in understanding and respect between birth professionals in the biomedical and naturalistic sides of the birth world? How can birth education and prenatal classes be improved to better prepare couples for childbirth and empower them to advocate for their own values and desires? What steps can individuals in the birth industry take to address judgment, shame, and guilt among birth workers, and promote empathy, respect, and professional ethics? By exploring the perspectives of various birth professionals and delving into the need for unity, better training, and improved communication, this episode serves as a catalyst for positive change in the birthing industry. About Jenny Jenny Kozlow is a highly experienced perinatal educator with a ion for traveling and listening to people’s stories. Over her 40-year career, she has accumulated hundreds of stories from birth workers such as OB GYNs, doulas, midwives, obstetrical nurses, and lactation consultants from various countries around the world. Jenny recognized the value of these stories in promoting better understanding and collaboration within the field. She discovered that many stories centered around the lack of respect and feeling of invisibility experienced by the gestational family, and she aimed to address this imbalance. By sharing these stories, Jenny hopes to shed light on the perspectives of others and foster a more inclusive and collaborative approach in the birth community. Connect with her: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenny_kozlow/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/jennykozlow/ Website: https://previdafoundation.com/ Episode Time Stamps: 02:40 Long working hours create stress, disrespect. Toxicity and conflict in medical environments. Need for collaboration to families. 07:56 Perinatal educator accumulates stories from birth workers. 11:21 Openness and criticism among birth workers. 19:38 OB GYNs and doulas clash in birth. 26:23 Institutionalised childbirth vs. more natural birth options. 32:34 Internal vs external communication in pregnancy care. Professional/personal balance. New professionals lack experience but want to serve. 33:57 Challenges of healthcare system for midwives. 39:18 System not all toxic, individuals doing great things. 45:52 High c-section rate in private clinics unacceptable. 53:21 Doulas and consultants families emotionally. 59:10 Fair reporting and recognizing shared humanity. 01:05:26 Difficulties raising child, authority and boundaries. 01:07:26 Amazing, vulnerable, emotional journey of childbirth education.

In this episode, I have an incredible story of transformation to share with you. My guest, Jessica, was once plagued with fear when it came to pregnancy and childbirth. However, she conquered her fears and had a positive birth experience that inspired her to make a bold career change. From Fearful Mama to Confident Midwife Jessica talks about her journey from fear to becoming a midwife. It’s a remarkable turnaround that showcases the power of overcoming our deepest fears and embracing new paths in life. But before we delve into Jessica’s inspiring story, I want to share with you a tale that highlights what can happen if we leave our pregnancy and birth fears unchecked. Learn about the fears commonly faced by women during pregnancy, birth, and even those struggling with tokophobia. While some may assume these fears revolve around pain and tearing, they often stem from deeper conflicts and anxieties. These fears include the fear of losing control, feeling trapped or lacking choices, making the wrong decisions, and feeling weak or vulnerable. These fears are not exclusive to pregnancy and birth. They can manifest in various areas of our lives, such as feeling out of control at home or work, or even a loss of control over our own bodies. It’s crucial to recognise and address these fears because they tend to permeate other aspects of our lives, affecting our overall well-being and hindering our personal growth. To illustrate this point, I recount a powerful story of a radio show presenter who, like me, experienced tokophobia. Following the loss of her baby and her subsequent aversion to getting pregnant again, she discovered that this fear had affected multiple areas of her life without her realising it. Once she identified and faced her fear head-on, she realised how it had suppressed her ability to birth anything significant in her business and personal development. The transformation she experienced after releasing this fear was nothing short of astounding. So, if you’re currently grappling with fears surrounding pregnancy, birth, or any other areas in life, listen closely to Jessica’s remarkable journey. Her story is a testament to the incredible power we possess within ourselves to rewrite our narratives and conquer our deepest fears. Get ready to be inspired, empowered, and discover a fearless mindset with Fear Free Childbirth. In this episode, we delved into a wide array of thought-provoking questions with Jessica: Have you ever experienced any fears related to pregnancy or birth? How did you handle them? How do you think fears about pregnancy and birth can impact other aspects of a person’s life? Can you think of any examples? Have you ever witnessed someone close to you struggling with fears around childbirth? How did they cope with it? Do you think understanding the root cause of a fear can help in overcoming it? Why or why not? Have you ever been inspired to make a major career change due to a life-changing event? How do you think conquering a fear can lead to personal transformation? Do you think this fear is universal? How might it manifest in different areas of life? How do you think societal expectations and judgments contribute to fears around pregnancy and birth? Do you think addressing past traumas is essential in overcoming fears? What steps do you think can be taken to raise awareness and provide for individuals facing fears related to childbirth? Resources Mentioned During the Episode During the episode, the following resources were mentioned: Fearless Birthing online course: The ONLY self-healing program that will show you how to let go of your fears and anxieties around pregnancy and birth so that you can approach motherhood with confidence. Clearance Club: Everything you need to free yourself of stress and anxiety so that you can experience calmness, clarity and confidence.   Episode Guest Jessica Mengel was fearful when she was facing pregnancy and birth. She conquered her fears and had a positive birth experience. This transformative experience motivated Jessica to change careers and become a midwife. Her ion for helping others navigate the fear surrounding childbirth led her to pursue a new path in ing women during one of the most crucial periods of their lives. Jessica’s story showcases the power of overcoming fear and how it can lead to remarkable personal growth and professional transformation. Episode Timestamps 00:00:33 Jessica overcomes birth fears and becomes midwife. 00:03:34 Fear of losing control: chaos at home, work, body 00:09:49 Consider your birth experience’s impact on life. Explore struggles, patterns, and fears. Find unique insights beyond conventional thinking. Now, let’s delve into the interview. 00:13:53 Overcoming fear to pursue pregnancy, facing reality. 00:15:48 Doctor’s appointments didn’t provide enough time. Researched fear-free childbirth and found helpful information. Listened to podcasts and read positive birth book. 00:20:44 Massage, niggle, labor, cookie-making, possible labor. 00:22:24 Got intense, woke husband, possibly in labor.

In this episode, my special guest is Emma Moon, a cosmic fertility guide and a spirit baby medium. Emma’s unique background includes a Bachelor of Science in nursing and expertise as an integrative health practitioner. She blends both science and spirituality in her work, ing women through their fertility journey, pregnancy, and conscious birth. Emma’s approach involves connecting with the energy and spirit of her clients, helping them navigate emotional and spiritual blocks that may affect their fertility. Through a combination of nutrition, lifestyle changes, and intuitive guidance, she provides comprehensive for women and couples. Conversations with Spirit Babies: Exploring Fertility and Conscious Conception In this episode, we delved into a wide array of thought-provoking questions with Emma. How does Emma Moon blend science and spirituality in her work as a cosmic fertility guide and spirit baby medium? Can emotional and spiritual blocks affect a person’s fertility? How does Emma address these challenges? Why does Emma prefer to use the term “fertility challenges” instead of “infertility”? How does Emma tap into her intuitive abilities during her work with clients? What strategies does Emma use to and heal the body in of nutrition, lifestyle, herbs, and supplements How does Emma connect with a client’s energy field and spirit babies to guide the conversation and healing process Has she ever considered the spiritual aspects of pregnancy and fertility? How might this perspective enhance your own experience? How can a conscious pregnancy and conscious conception positively impact a person’s journey to parenthood? Resources Mentioned During the Episode These resources contribute to a holistic approach to fertility and pregnancy, incorporating both scientific and spiritual perspectives. 1. Integrative Health and Nutrition Program – The program Emma attended to specialise in women’s health and hormones. 2. Nutrition, lifestyle, herbs, and supplements – Strategies used by Emma to fertility and overall health. 3.Energetic therapies – A component of Emma’s comprehensive fertility . 4. Spirit Baby Medium – Emma’s ability to connect with and advocate for spirit babies. 5. Conscious Pregnancy – A concept discussed in the episode. 6. Conscious Conception – The idea of intentionally creating a pregnancy. 7. Conscious Birth – Approaching birth with awareness and intention. 8. Science and spirituality – The blending of scientific and spiritual perspectives in fertility . 9. Energy system – The recognition of the body’s energetic aspect in fertility. 10. Fertility challenges – A term used instead of infertility to focus on the potential for healing. 11. Spirit team – Spiritual guides and helpers that individuals. 12. Chakra systems – Energetic centres in the body that may affect fertility. About Emma Moon Meet Emma Moon, a ionate advocate and practitioner dedicated to holistic reproductive health and the magic of cosmic fertility. Emma’s unique approach blends science, intuition, and spirituality to provide comprehensive for hormone balancing, conscious conception, fertility, and spirit baby journeys. Emma Moon fosters a deep connection with your body, leveraging menstrual cycles for wellness. As a Spirit Baby Medium, she guides parents-to-be with fertility science and intuition. Her work empowers conscious conception and holistic reproductive wellness. Connect with her: https://www.emma-moon.com/, https://www.instagram.com/cosmicallynourished/ Episode Time Stamps 00:00:32 Emma Moon is a cosmic fertility guide and spirit baby medium, ing communication with babies during pregnancy. 00:03:48 Overcame illness, pursued women’s health, fertility. 00:10:14 Pressure to embody parental roles, societal expectations, desire, readiness, fear, trauma, in reproductive journey. 00:14:06 Ancestral birthing experiences impact our intuition & safety. 00:17:04 Inherited memories impact our own experiences. 00:19:33 Importance and calling to become a mother.

Welcome back to Fear Free Childbirth! In today’s episode, I want to explore how we can measure healing progress when we’re undertaking personal development work, or healing. And in doing so I’d like to share a tool that I think can help you with this called the Map of Consciousness. How to Measure Healing Progress in Pregnancy and Birth Have you ever invested time and energy into courses, therapy or retreats to bring about a change in how you feel, only to wonder if they’re really making a difference? We all have, right? Today, I want share a powerful tool that you can use to measure the effectiveness of these activities in overcoming fear, anxiety, and finding calm and peace. Once I discovered this method of measuring healing progress I decided to revisit my own healing journey around overcoming tokophobia, and my pregnancy fears and anxieties; I wanted to see what it would tell me. And it’s fascinating! In today’s episode, we’ll explore the concept of consciousness and how understanding your own state of mind can give you clues as to where you are on your healing journey. So, let’s dive in and learn how to measure the effectiveness of our healing work or therapeutic methods, and ultimately, achieve fear-free childbirth. Going from Fearful to Fearless: And Being Able to Demonstrate the Change In this insightful podcast episode, I want to help you to embark on a journey of self-discovery and healing as we explore a series of thought-provoking questions; How do you personally measure the effectiveness of your healing work or therapeutic practices? Have you ever experienced a significant shift in your level of consciousness? If so, what factors do you believe contributed to that shift? Do you think it’s important to have a tool or method to track progress in overcoming fears and anxieties? How do you distinguish between temporary feelings of happiness and true progress in your healing journey? Have you ever felt trapped in repeating negative patterns or self-destructive behaviours? How did you break free from them? What role do you think self-awareness plays in the healing journey? How has it impacted your own progress? How do you perceive the relationship between your level of consciousness and your emotional well-being? Are there any specific life events or experiences that have significantly impacted your personal growth and healing journey? These questions will guide our exploration into the realms of personal transformation, self-awareness, and the various tools and experiences that contribute to our individual healing journeys. Resources mentioned during the episode During the episode, the following resources were mentioned: 1. Courses or retreats focused on personal development and healing. 2. The Map of Consciousness tool, which measures an individual’s level of consciousness on a scale from 0 to 1000. 3. Kinesiology, a method used to test muscle response and identify weaknesses or strengths in relation to specific triggers or issues. 4. Tony Robbins events or programs, which are known for their motivational and self-improvement focus. 5. “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle, a book that explores the importance of living in the present moment and letting go of negative thought patterns. 6. Inner work, fear clearance, and therapy as general concepts and approaches to healing and personal development. Episode Timestamps 00:00:29 Measuring healing work and fear release progress. 00:03:16 Measure success of activities and personal journey. 00:09:22 Tool to measure progress on emotional healing. 00:13:53 Conquer head trash, evolve into washing ball. 00:14:59 Emotional patterns repeat; frustrating, repetitive cycle. 00:19:40 Unexpected triggers bring unresolved trauma, but progress continues. 00:23:58 Progress is measured by bounce back ability. 00:25:03 “Measuring bounce back ability and resilience” 00:29:59 Freedom to pursue what you want, healing work, measuring impact. 00:32:35 Kinesiology used for healing and self-improvement. 00:34:43 Understanding consciousness, gaining inspiration and insight. 00:40:12 Understanding levels of consciousness, navigating shifts. 00:41:38 Moments in time reveal personal development progress. 00:46:44 Shift consciousness, reflect life, empower healing progression. 00:48:45 Fear Free Childbirth podcast for overcoming tokophobia.

In today’s episode, I’m ed by Dr. Lauren Cook, who will be diving into a topic that affects many parents in the modern era – anxiety in Gen Z. Gen Z Anxiety: Navigating Parenthood in Uncertain Times Dr. Cook, a therapist and author, brings her expertise and insights from her book “Generation Anxiety,” which provides a guide for millennials and Gen Z to navigate an uncertain world. We’ll be exploring how anxiety manifests in young people, particularly as they contemplate starting a family or becoming parents. Plus, we’ll discuss strategies for overcoming fear, managing anxiety, and finding empowerment in the midst of uncertainty. During our conversation, we chat about the fears and anxieties surrounding starting a family and becoming parents, especially in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic and concerns about climate change. Lauren offers invaluable insights on how to tackle these challenges and find a sense of community and connection even in uncertain times. If you’ve ever experienced anxiety, worried about starting a family, or simply want to gain a deeper understanding of Gen Z anxiety, this episode is a must-listen. Get ready for an insightful and empowering conversation. Let’s dive in!   Resources Mentioned During the Episode During the podcast, several resources and tools are mentioned to help with anxiety, mental health, and fear during pregnancy. Here are some of the resources that are discussed: 1. Music: creating a playlist of uplifting songs on your phone or using a music streaming platform like Spotify to have uplifting music readily available for easy access when feeling down. 2. “Empowered Acceptance”: explores acknowledging the difficult and scary realities of life, taking action, and finding ways to be part of the solution. 3. Therapy: holistic healing and therapy on an individual level to address mental health challenges. 4. Calm App: for guided mindfulness and mentions enjoying guided mindfulness with this app. They also suggest ing the hypnobirthing app called Calm Birth. 5. Self-Care Kit: creating a self-care kit that engages all the senses. This may include items that can be touched for comfort, aromatherapy for relaxation (such as peppermint essential oil), sound machines or music, visual cues like family pictures or favorite quotes, and even taste-based items like peppermint candy or gum to help with anxiety. Overall, the podcast provides a range of resources and approaches to those dealing with anxiety, fear, and emotional well-being during pregnancy and motherhood. Episode Timestamps 00:01:35 Lauren had a baby, discussing fear during pregnancy. 00:04:12 Fear of losing control during birth. 00:06:56 Apprehension and excitement normal for pregnancy decision. 00:10:42 Writing “Generation Anxiety,” paralleling pregnancy, high anxiety, pleasant ending with breach baby, commonality of breach births, peaceful C-section, beautiful birth. 00:14:50 Anticipatory anxiety is worse than reality. 00:18:53 Anxiety in youth: prevalence and cultural impact. 00:22:26 Exposure therapy: practice and face-to-face interaction. 00:23:59 Anxiety feeds into family planning, COVID impact. 00:28:55 Fast paced world makes it hard to stay. 00:32:36 Empowered acceptance: acknowledging realities, taking action. 00:34:06 Holistic healing can be approached indirectly. 00:37:06 Deviance from norm, dysfunction, danger, 00:40:15 Music game changer. Lift you. Spotify playlist. 00:46:47 Fear Free Childbirth podcast: removing pregnancy fear. Episode Guest Meet Dr. Lauren Cook, a licensed Clinical Psychologist, company consultant, author, and speaker. With a doctorate in Clinical Psychology and her Master’s in Marriage and Family Therapy, Dr. Lauren appears frequently in the media to provide commentary while also working with companies as well as individual adults, couples, families, and teens to help reduce anxiety and improve personal and professional outcomes. She integrates evidence-based tools from a systems lens and she speaks internationally, both in-person and virtually. Dr. Lauren owns a private practice, Heartship Psychological Services, serving all clients residing in California. You can connect with Dr. Lauren through TikTok, Instagram, her Brain Health Book Club, and through her podcast, The Boardroom Brain. Stay tuned for Dr. Lauren’s latest book, GENERATION ANXIETY—set to hit the shelves in September 2023. Other Links: Website: https://www.drlaurencook.com/ Heartship Psychological Services: https://www.heartshipcounseling.com/ Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:34]: Now, on today’s show, I’m going to be speaking to Dr. Lauren Cook, and we’re going to be speaking about gen z and anxiety. Anxiety is something that a lot of us struggle with, but I think that when it comes to millennials and gen z, they are considered to be two of the most anxious generations in history. And so I really wanted to sort of dive into the topic of anxiety with a real focus on how anxiety is being experienced by these generations, and particularly because they are the generations that are coming into parenthood. So for me, when it comes to contemplating parenthood, having a baby, and how anxiety might feed into your own fears around birth, this felt like a really important conversation to have. And Dr. Cook is bringing a book out imminently. It might already be out in your local bookstore called Generation Anxiety a Millennial and Gen Z Guide to Staying afloat in an uncertain world. So we’re going to be diving into that conversation. Alexia [00:01:35]: Also, Lauren has just had a baby, so she’s just come out. She’s got a new squishy newborn that she is making friends with, getting to know. So we dive into some of that, too, because, of course, I’m always interested in how people’s pregnancies went and how their birth went. But before I dive into that conversation, I want to answer a question that I’ve had from a listener. So the question I’ve had is, how can you trust that you’ve conquered your fear enough to move forward with pregnancy? Now, this is a really good question, and I’m glad it’s been asked, because I’m more than happy to dive into this. So a good place to start would be how do you know when you’ve healed of something? Or how do you know when you have cleared the fear? And I’m going to be speaking specifically in regards to using head trash clearance, the technique that I developed, because that is where I have my knowledge, and that is also where I can give you concrete answers. So when you have cleared a fear using head trash clearance, the end result of that is you feel neutral. You’re in a state of neutrality about the thing pain, for example. Alexia [00:02:39]: So let’s say you have a fear of pain. And this fear that you have of pain is every time you think of pain, you tense up, you get really anxious. Your body, your legs, tighten up together, you frown, you’ve got tension in your shoulders. All of these things come into play the minute you kind of think about pain, the idea of experiencing pain. And so that tells me that there’s a very visceral fear at play if these are your responses to pain and thinking about pain. Now, once you have cleared that fear of pain, and there could be many strands to this fear, so it might mean one clearance or it could mean several, it could be connected to some other themes for you. And that is unique to everybody. But once you have cleared it, the way that you know that it’s clear is that when you think about the idea of pain or experiencing pain, you think, oh well, okay, so what? I’ll deal with it, it’s going to be fine, I’ll be absolutely fine, whatever. Alexia [00:03:37]: I can handle it, I can handle it. And it’s that state of not being bothered, not being, not caring about it, thinking, well, I’ll just take it my stride, I’ll handle it when it comes. That’s the position that you reach when a fear is no longer a fear, where you’re contemplating this thing and it’s like, okay, well, I’ll take it my stride. And that can be a really good sign where you simply just don’t care about the prospect of that thing anymore. It doesn’t kind of trigger you. It doesn’t bring up any anxiety in you. You just feel neutral. So whether you experience pain or not, it doesn’t really matter. Alexia [00:04:12]: You’re still going to go through the thing and yada, yada, yada, that’s how that feels. So how does that feel then, with a different fear? Let me give you another example. So another really common fear that people have around birth is control, and the fear of losing control or not being in control. And so when somebody has a fear of not being in control or that the idea of losing control and that could be fear of losing control of their emotions, of their state of mind, but also of the situation or their bodily functions, that level of control that you might feel that you’re losing could affect different aspects of your being. So when you have overcome that fear, you reach a place where you think, well, okay, so I might lose control. Doesn’t matter, I’ll be fine, it’s okay, I don’t need to be in control. I might start crying in an uncontrollable mess, and that’s okay because I probably just need to express that and get out of my system. Or maybe if I’m thinking about birth and I think I might wheel over the floor or something, then, well, that’s okay, that happens. Alexia [00:05:11]: It’s a normal bodily function. It’s not going to kill me, it’s fine. You just reach this place where you’re just not bothered. That’s how you know that this fear has cleared. So let’s take this forward then. When you, let’s say you’ve had a lot of fears that you’ve worked through and now you’re, am I ready for pregnancy? Then how do you know if you’re ready to move forward with pregnancy? Well, at that point, you can think, how would I feel right now if I saw a pregnancy test and it was confirmed that, yes, I was pregnant? How would that make me feel? And you might think, Actually, I’m okay with that situation now. Of course, it might be very different when it actually happens. The reality of it might strike very differently to the imagined version. Alexia [00:05:54]: Okay. And that happens. But if in your mind you can contemplate that position and you’re like, actually, I feel quite neutral if I’m pregnant now, great, okay. And if I’m not pregnant, well, I will just keep trying. It’s that kind of it’s okay if I am, It’s okay if I’m not. That’s what this neutrality position is, where you are happy to go either way. You’re happy being pregnant or you’re happy not being pregnant. Alexia [00:06:18]: Of course, there might be an overwhelming desire for pregnancy and you might be slightly disappointed, but that disappointment is not the same as, oh, thank God for that. Oh, my goodness, that would have been a nightmare. That’s not that is it? It’s a very different position or a different state of mind to think, okay, well, we’ll keep trying and see you next time. Fingers crossed for next time. That’s a calm, neutral response to the prospect of pregnancy compared to, oh, my goodness, oh, my goodness. Panic, panic, panic. Am I pregnant? Oh, my God. That kind of like tension, anxiety and overall sort of sense of panic coming on at the prospect of pregnancy. Alexia [00:06:56]: Now, the thing that I do want to say is that obviously the decision to have children and move forward to pregnancy is a big decision. And so that may still be met with some apprehension and some nervous tension or excitement or something that gives you butterflies or a bit like, oh, my goodness, is this the right thing for me, that kind of thing. But that kind of apprehension is natural, is normal, and is not necessarily fear. And so it’s important to start to discern what you’re noticing, what you’re feeling, to see whether, is this what I’m feeling? Is this just a little bit of excitement with a little bit of fear thrown in? But actually it’s a natural level of fear. It’s a normal level of fear for somebody to be thinking or feeling going into such a big life change, because when we go through something that is new, that is quite significant, there’s always going to be a level of apprehension. If you start your first day at a new job, you’re going to be slightly worried, slightly apprehensive before you go in because it’s all unknown. Similar kind of feelings might show up when you’re contemplating pregnancy. Once you’ve got over all those fears, you’re like, oh, my God, this is going to be new and all of that, but that’s not the same as this visceral fear that you might have felt previously. Alexia [00:08:14]: So it’s really to tune into how does that fear feel within you, in your body. And if you’ve managed to eliminate these strong physical sensations that crop up with the fear, whenever you want to connect to this idea of the fear or thinking about it, or the prospect of experiencing this thing that you fear, if you have lost those visceral reactions that kind of immediate trigger, then that’s a good sign. But also notice what’s going on in your mind and whether or not now you’re like, actually I can take it or leave it, actually I’m okay with this. I feel quite neutral and you feel calm and almost like the information is coming into your space, into your headspace, and it isn’t dragging in with it, loads of emotions with it. It’s coming in quite clean and content free in that respect. This idea of pain comes in, you’re like, well, of course I wouldn’t want to experience pain because that’s weird. But if I do experience, if I do experience pain, I’ll be fine because it won’t last long and I’ll get over it and I’ll move on. That’s a very different state of mind. Alexia [00:09:18]: So I hope that that helps. For those of you that are wondering, what does it look like when you have conquered a fear? Okay, so I’m going to go back to today’s episode and a conversation with Dr. Lauren Cook. Now, as part of this conversation, we’re going to be diving into all manner of aspects of anxiety and we’re also going to touch on emetophobia, which I touched on a few weeks ago because Lauren also suffered from emetophobia, which is a fear of being sick. So this was a big deal for her in the lead up to her pregnancy, but I’ll let her talk all about it and tell us more about how her pregnancy journey was, but also spilling the beans on anxiety for the millennial and Gen Z generations. Enjoy. Hello Lauren, and welcome to the podcast. Lauren [00:10:05]: Oh, Lexi, it’s so good to be with you. Thanks for having me. Alexia [00:10:08]: That’s OK. We’re going to have such a great conversation. I know, because there are so many topics before we recorded that I said I really want to talk about this and I want to talk about this. The main meat of the conversation. I think today is really going to be around anxiety, and specifically around anxiety for Gen Z, because that is a huge topic that I really want to dive into as they are thinking about planning, think about having a family. But you’ve just become a mum three months old. You’ve got a three month old. So let’s just talk very briefly about your own journey, becoming a mum and your pregnancy journey. Alexia [00:10:40]: Would you mind just sharing a little bit about that, Lauren? Lauren [00:10:42]: Oh, absolutely. Well, it was so funny writing this book, generation Anxiety, kind of in a parallel timing with getting pregnant, being pregnant. I had so much anxiety around pregnancy and what that would all entail. When we were talking before we hit record, I’ve got a very fun phobia, emetophobia, which is a phobia of vomit, which as you can imagine with pregnancy is like prime exposure, right? Very anxious about that, but honestly had a really nice, healthy pregnancy, ended up having a little breech baby. So I am convinced that breech babies are more common than the literature says. It says like 1% to 3% of babies are breached. But I don’t know, four out of ten mommies in my Mommy and Me class we had breach babies, so ended up having a plan C section and really actually felt a lot of peace in that. In the end, it was still a very beautiful birth. Lauren [00:11:37]: How he came into this world. Now I’ve got a three month old little Derek. Alexia [00:11:41]: So let’s just talk about the vomit phobia briefly because I know this is a very, very common phobia. If not, sometimes I see it stuck at the top of the charts. In of one of the most common phobias, how did that manifest for you? Have you always had it? Lauren [00:11:55]: Yeah, I write about this in the book, and oftentimes people who have this phobia, they have some kind of trauma around vomit, but not always. It might be a really embarrassing experience they had where they got sick or someone got sick on them. That disgust piece in the brain is so powerful, and that’s really what vomit is for a lot of people. It feels pretty disgusting. My mom had breast cancer when I was two years old and was very sick. Of course, I don’t consciously any of this, but I was throwing up a lot from chemotherapy. I was often physically removed from my house, I think, to kind of try to protect me from seeing her so sick. But I think that really led me to internalise that vomit was out of control, was sickness, was potentially even life threatening and death. Lauren [00:12:45]: I’m really happy to say that my mom is healthy and well, and I saw her yesterday and she’s loving being a grandma. I think seeing her at least unconsciously as a little child, that really led to some very deep trauma for me. And I’ve always had this phobia of vomit ever since. And it’s been fascinating with the book coming out because I write a lot about emetophobia in the book. So many people have been coming out and saying that they too have this phobia. Alexia [00:13:12]: Did you heal this phobia or do you still have it today? Lauren [00:13:15]: It’s in between, and I say that’s true for all of anxiety. It’s rare that we ever make it go completely away. Will I ever be that person that’s out holding somebody’s hair back at a bar probably not, but I am able to withstand it. Where I was able to even get pregnant because my phobia was so bad. At one point, I felt like I would never be able to have kids because the idea of pregnancy and morning sickness scared me so bad, and kids throwing up, that scared me so bad. And if you don’t experience this phobia, I realised this can sound like, ridiculous. Someone could be hearing this and being like, get over it. But phobias are so instinctual and there’s such a deep rooted fear. Lauren [00:14:01]: Logically, I could say, yeah, this is ridiculous. But on a biological level, I really felt endangered. So I did a lot of therapy. I did a lot of work to get to a place where I could be pregnant. I did, in fact, throw up during the pregnancy only once, but I got through it. A lot of exposure and response prevention therapy was really helpful for me. And my son has even thrown up on me since he’s been born, and I’ve been able to handle it. So I think that’s a big win. Alexia [00:14:28]: You are totally winning it. You are totally nailing motherhood there. Brilliant. Brilliant. Let’s dive into anxiety, because obviously I would imagine that the fear of vomit as well as any other anxieties that you had, would have really contributed to the anxiety that you were feeling. Any fears around birth and thinking about pregnancy? Talk to me a little bit about how that anxiety was for you and how you manage that. Lauren [00:14:50]: Well, like with all things with anxiety, we see the anticipatory anxiety is so much worse than the actual reality of it. The fear of what could happen was so much worse than what actually did happen, right? Like, when I did actually throw up, I saying to myself while it was happening, literally a mantra out loud, I’m okay, I’m okay. And after the fact, I was like, that wasn’t fun, but my world didn’t end. I didn’t die. It’s the same thing with panic, right? People have panic attacks, and they feel in the moment like they’re going to die, but no one has actually died of a panic attack. I try and remind myself of that and my clients of that, of, like, the fear of what could be is often so much worse than the reality of what is. And I tried to really that during the pregnancy. Like, I’m strong, I’m capable, I can live with anxiety. Lauren [00:15:44]: My big thing is I don’t want anxiety to determine the outcome of my life. And if I didn’t have kids, knowing that that’s a value that I’ve had for myself, if I didn’t make that choice, I knew it would have been because I was avoiding anxiety, and that’s what I didn’t want to happen. It’s fine if you don’t have kids for other reasons, right? But I think it’s really important that we don’t let anxiety call the shots on our life. Alexia [00:16:07]: Yeah, I totally agree. And that’s exactly what I say in of fear, don’t make that decision from a place of fear. Heal that so that you can make a decision about having kids from a place that is from a good place, from your heart, not from fear or anxiety. So I think that you can live with the decision like that in a way that you can’t. I think from anxiety or fear, it’s much more difficult as regret and guilt and then it suddenly becomes worse. Right? It just kind of becomes a situation that can be difficult for people to live with long term. Lauren [00:16:37]: Oh, I was just going to say, like you mentioned that regret piece and that’s everything right there. We have to ask ourselves, when I end my life and I look back, will I have any regrets? And if the answer is yes, then we know that the anxiety is probably really getting in the way there. Alexia [00:16:54]: Yeah, and absolutely no. I love that you picked that out. So your book is really about the Generation Z and how anxiety plays out for them. So I’m really interested in what does that look like and how is it different, maybe to the anxiety that maybe different generations are experiencing? I mean, is it completely different? Is it just a shade different? I don’t know. I’d love for you to shed some light on that. Lauren [00:17:19]: Yeah, absolutely. And the book is written a millennial and a Gen Z guide because we are really seeing that anxiety does look different for millennials and Gen Z and I did a lot of research into why exactly that know, you look at something like the Generational Power Index and you ask people what has been defining generationally for you? Most generations, at least here in the United States, will tell you September 11 for us was like a Hallmark moment. But there’s been so many things since then, one thing after another. Climate change, gun violence. I mean, the UK just came out and said that the US. Is an unsafe place to travel to. Right? I mean, there’s just so much going on in our world with social media, the inundation of news, the war in Ukraine. You start to see people feeling helpless and hopeless. Lauren [00:18:09]: And when you put those two things together, it’s a recipe for feeling anxious and left unchecked, a recipe for feeling depressed over time. So that’s why I felt like I’ve got to write this book right now. Because we are seeing anxiety go through the roof for folks. And people are either having an avoidance reaction of I just want to put my head in the sand and ignore everything because it’s too much, but then the problems continue or they’re almost over preparing and they’re not able to live in the present moment of their life because they may be engaging in all kinds of compulsive behaviours. My hope is that people, even given everything going on in the world, can still live life in alignment for them, even with that anxiety present. Alexia [00:18:53]: And so when they are experiencing the anxiety, how does that play out in someone that is quite young, really? I know that mental health doesn’t discriminate by age, but I’m just wondering when I think about maybe I think I was a really hot mess, actually when I was young, and I was probably wrestling with loads of anxiety and I didn’t realise it. Okay, so maybe when I was that age, 1020 years ago that we were all maybe I was just surrounded by loads of anxious people and I wasn’t able to tell. Maybe it really is quite a big significantly different now, and there’s a larger proportion of people who are suffering from anxiety. And I think also because now we’re talking about mental health and now we’re okay to talk about our wounds and our parents and we’re going to therapy now. It’s kind of something where people are more willing to talk about. Maybe we’re just more aware of it. I don’t know. But I’m just interested in how this anxiety piece looks among that generation and how it kind of plays out in the culture among them and their peers. Lauren [00:19:53]: Well, I think that’s a big part of the problem, is that we’re also seeing this loneliness epidemic happen, right? And I do think generationally, that’s a big difference. You look at what was happening during World War II, right? A lot of people will say, well, that time, how were people not more anxious then than now? That was a horrible time in history. But people had more community back then. People knew who their neighbours were. They were closer with their families. Now people tend to really live in way more isolation. They don’t know who their neighbours are. They don’t say hi to the person at the grocery store. Lauren [00:20:28]: We don’t know who we can trust anymore. We’ve lost our ability to have meaningful relationships with people where we’re seeing social anxiety go through the roof, right? It’s kind of a joke. If a Gen Z gets a voicemail, that ‘s like prime ten, like an anxious reaction, right? So we’re losing our social muscles. This happens. We naturally see anxiety go up because we feel isolated and scared in the world. Who do I have to turn to for ? Who can I share this with? Yes, I can pay a therapist and talk about it with them. That’s great. But there’s also a sadness, right, that maybe I can’t talk to my friend about it or my parents about it. Lauren [00:21:08]: People are spending so much more time on their phones than actual face to face connection. And our brains are literally starved neurologically for those deep connections. I think that’s a huge part of why these two generations, millennial and Gen Z, are more anxious than ever because they’re doing this alone. Alexia [00:21:26]: And also now we’re hearing that AI is now going to be we’re going to get therapists, AI therapists. And you just think, hang on a minute, this is not going in the right direction at all. Because it’s that human connection that we crave, that we need as mums. Everybody listening to the show, I would imagine, is aware of this, but a baby needs to be held. If a baby is not held in its first few weeks, it will die. It needs that loving connection. That is a thing that we all humans need. Doesn’t stop when you stop being a baby, you continue to need that human connection. Alexia [00:21:56]: And so this kind of stuck to the phone, only engaging through an app, only messaging through apps, not meeting up. Even when they do meet up, they’re all on their phones together. I just had all my family around and they were just sitting in the same room just on phones. You’re like, what are you doing? It’s really difficult. And then also I’m hearing colleagues and friends that are saying, when we have some young people starting, we’ve got to train them on how to answer a telephone, which, again, reinforces that sense of this difficulty with social connection. So where’s the starting point? Lauren [00:22:26]: Well, we mentioned exposure and response therapy. And honestly, that’s the best treatment for something like this is to actually practise this. I’m a big behaviourist as a psychologist, it’s great to work on your mindset, but the brain has to behaviorally see that we’re capable of these things that make us uncomfortable. So, yes, leaving a voicemail on the phone right. Or asking a friend out to dinner or lunch and having a rule, we’re not going to pull our phones out. Right. The more we can have that eye , that face to face, and even talking to a stranger, right? I just read a study the other day that interacting with strangers is so good for our brain health. And actually those interactions tend to go way better than we expect they will. Lauren [00:23:10]: But we just need to build more community. And if that’s even setting a goal of, like, today I’m going to smile at someone, or today I’m going to ask the Grocer how they’re doing, even though that makes me feel like I’m going to crawl out of my skin. We start to have those corrective experiences to see, like, oh, either somebody was friendly back to me or maybe it was a neutral interaction, but going to get into a fight with someone when we’re kind and nice to someone, right? We have to practise these things more. And I think older generations can be a part of that too, by really asking young adults like, hey, how’s it going? What’s going on for you today? Right. And really trying to help pull Gen Z and Millennial out so that they’re engaging more. Because we know that mentorships across generations is huge, and that’s not really happening either. Alexia [00:23:59]: And so how does this anxiety then feed into those that may be thinking about planning a family or thinking about becoming parents. Because you mentioned some things that are happening in society that are really kind of quite terrifying where you kind of spend too long thinking about them. And of course, we’ve all been through that collective traumatic experience that is COVID whether it’s lockdown the isolation that that brought on, but also that did in some areas foster some sense of community. I know in some areas in the UK, everyone was out clapping at night and they got to know their neighbours and they were chatting on the fence and there was a little bit of community that started kind of building up. Certainly where I was, we got to know our neighbours a lot more. So I think it’s a mixed bag. But for the most part, I think a lot of people felt the isolation, the disconnection from family, the fear of that whole situation that played out. But like you said, there’s the climate change narrative that a lot of women that I’m in with are saying, well, I don’t know if it’s right that I should bring a child into the world. Alexia [00:24:54]: This is what’s making me think twice. Then you’ve got the community. We know that it takes a village to raise a family and there isn’t a village. So it’s hard work. People aren’t with their families anymore, they’ve moved away. So how does this anxiety in the work that you’ve done, how does that play out with those that are planning families or thinking about wanting a family? Lauren [00:25:13]: Well, and that’s spot on. We see right now that about 40% of young adults are saying I don’t want to have kids because of the anxiety around things like climate change and things like that. And you hear of a lot of drinks, right? Double income, no kids. That’s kind of a name that we have here in the States for people who want to make that choice. I really come back to values here. What are your personal values? If a personal value is I want to bring someone into this world and teach them how to be a citizen that makes a difference. I want to help teach someone, learn how to grow, then if that’s a value for you, how can we help you reason with the anxiety that comes from that? And I often will say values induction is not about pain reduction. A lot of times we want to make choices because we don’t want to feel pain, we don’t want to feel uncomfortable. Lauren [00:26:04]: There’s a lot of things about pregnancy, having a child that include pain, that include discomfort. And if we’re so set on just being comfortable all the time, why would anyone have kids, right? But are there things that come out of it that are so meaningful to you that you want to build this family that is going to hopefully help contribute to the. World, right, make things better, then I think that’s something we have to be willing to sit with that discomfort because there’s so much good that comes out of it. I think that’s something that’s really important for us to hold in the conversation of all of this. It’s not about reducing our pain, it’s about inducing the values there. It’s not an easy call, I totally want to acknowledge that. But at the same time, I think we need more people being a part of the solution than the problem. Alexia [00:26:51]: I think the avoidance of discomfort. I grew up before phones. I’m giving away my age now, obviously. But I think now we’ve been very used to having immediate gratification, things being very easy. Smart apps, smartphones are smart. They are smart everywhere and really having this convenience I’m going to order it now and if it’s not here by 08:00 tonight, then I’m not ordering from them again. This idea is like I’ve now moved to rural , so if I order off Amazon, I’m lucky to get it within four days. So the idea of getting it later that day, which was my old reality, is like so I’ve had a bit of a kind of wake up call on that. Alexia [00:27:25]: But the sense of community and actually when there’s other things that are able to take hold and to be nurtured, which are meaningful connections and being within a natural environment, some of those things are really I’m really recognizing now how important they are for me. When I was disconnected from all of that, I kind of didn’t realise how much I was missing kind of thing. This convenience thing, we kind of if it’s too hard work, I’m not going to go into town because that’s a pain. I’m going to have to park the car and I’ll stand in a queue and if I’ve got what I want, I’m going to go to another one. Oh my goodness. All this drama, this hard work, it’s easy to do it without. We’re now kind of not even, can’t even handle hard work or an effort. And so even things that take effort, that isn’t really difficult per se. Alexia [00:28:11]: It’s just time. Lauren [00:28:12]: It’s so true. And we have more free time than we ever have historically before, but it doesn’t feel like that to people. We don’t want to be uncomfortable. So that constant like go, go, that unwillingness to sit in any kind of inconvenience is definitely impacting our brain on a neurological level. And I would argue it’s even affecting things like diagnosis rates of ADHD, an amazing book, Stolen, focused by Johann Hari, talks about as we’re seeing such a surge in social media and just this instantaneousness, yes, we’re having difficulty concentrating, but it’s being diagnosed as ADHD. When could it actually be that our environment is just so over stimulating and so. Alexia [00:28:55]: Fast paced about an inability to stay with something a little bit longer? So some of them have moved to now so their approach to films, for example, is a lot slower. They’ll really kind of labour the point to where western, Hollywood movies, that kind of thing, it’s like there’s no hanging about, and they won’t allow that. Now, working with 32nd, 22nd reels on Instagram, this is kind of like the TikTok generation where if it’s not funny within 15 seconds, they’re onto the next one, then yes, goodness. How can they sit and read a book or even kind of move past that period where something might feel uncomfortable to sit with discomfort long enough to kind make it through the points? When you have a moment that might feel a little bit discomfort, uncomfortable at first, where those of us that maybe have been used to that, you kind of realise that that’s only last the beginning of it. And then you sit with it and you kind of ride through that, and then you’re like, oh, no, actually, I’m okay. But if you can’t sit through that first bit, you shy away from it every time, and you never learn that actually you can handle discomfort. It’s fine. And actually, it’s nothing to be afraid of. Alexia [00:29:58]: Actually, it makes you feel good. That’s where you get your confidence from sometimes is going through a lot of those uncomfortable experiences and knowing, hey, throw anything at me. I can deal with it. How can we teach people to kind of maybe live with discomfort, which I feel is maybe the early signs of anxiety developing. It’s the beginning of it, potentially. What do you think? Lauren [00:30:16]: I think mindfulness is huge. I really do. We are losing this ability where I’ve even had clients, we’ll be a minute into a mindfulness session, and they will interrupt and say, this is too hard. It feels really hard to just sit with ourselves. And mindfulness is not about feeling relaxed. It’s actually about learning how to just be in our bodies. So anything that kind of requires you to sit with it, whether it’s going to an exercise class, right, where socially it might be kind of weird if 20 minutes in, you just walk out of the yoga studio, but where there’s some social scripts of like, okay, I got to hang in there with this. That’s teaching us how to really sustain our attention and stay with and in turn, learn how to sit with discomfort. Lauren [00:30:59]: We’ve got to practise that. Even a little bit of a silly exercise, but a good way to harness this a little bit. Let’s say you have an itch on your face and you really want to scratch your nose. A lot of times we’ll just do it right away, right? But mindfulness would be, okay, can I sit with that discomfort of like, oh, I really want to. Itch my nose, but can I hold this? And that’s just a simple exercise that kind of elucidates the example of this, of learning how to sit in that discomfort and seeing that we can handle it. Alexia [00:31:30]: And so what other things can they do? Because it sounds to me like really maybe to help this generation, maybe better cope is these little exercises like the one you’ve just shown us now that’s very simple and really easy to do. I know I’ve done that loads in just, in meetings at work where you’re like, oh, I can’t. Is it really something? Are you really asking them and saying to them, you’ve got to kind of take this on. This is for you to own and to kind of figure out and fix yourself. That feels like a really mean thing to say. But also you have got to take responsibility for your own mental health, your own emotional well being and notice when things are starting to unravel and take action. At one end, it’s me sounding super mean, like, well, you got to own your stuff and crack on and sort it out. Which obviously isn’t very empathetic and helpful. Alexia [00:32:21]: But also there’s a part of that where you do need to just kind of throw a pair and just find the help. Go and find the resources, go and find a therapist, go and find the , make some go and do the things. Where do you sit on that? Do I sound super mean here or Is it Lauren [00:32:36]: I really like this idea. I write about this in the book called Empowered Acceptance and it’s really taking this both and approach. Like we have to accept and acknowledge the realities of this world, that life is really hard and scary. It’s not about gaslighting ourselves and saying like it’s not that bad. No, sometimes it is that bad and it does really feel hard accepting that, not avoiding that and being empowered too. Still taking action, right? Acceptance is not about apathy and just throwing our hands up and saying, well, I guess we’re all screwed, right? It’s saying, no, what can I do in my own life to take action? And what can I do to be a part of the solution? With climate change, for example, versus just standing on the sidelines, shaking my boots kind of thing, you have to be a part of the solution in that sense. On an individual level, I’m a huge advocate for holistic healing. Obviously, I’m a therapist, I’m a big fan of therapy. Lauren [00:33:33]: But I really think we’ve got to look at so many forms of healing, whether it’s acupuncture, whether it’s nutrition and the food we put into our body. I mean, the research on the gut brain connection and how that impacts anxiety with the foods we’re eating, that’s something that we can take action with. So it’s really looking at a lot of different avenues and seeing what works well for each individual person and putting in the time to do that that’s well worth the effort instead of just checking the boxes on all the other things on our to-do list. Alexia [00:34:06]: I think one of the holistic healing points are really important, I think. And I think when for some people going in the way I see it’s, like sometimes your mental health or emotional well being, let’s call that, that’s maybe the most pressing challenge that you’re facing. And so you could go in through the front door and deal with that head on, or you can maybe sneak in through the garden and maybe just do some exercise and maybe start running or doing something that’s going to build your physical strength. The nutrition, another back garden route where you can start doing things from the edges and then that builds up your overall health in other ways that then can give you the strength to then think, actually, I think I can tackle the front door now. Whereas without those things, maybe you kind of felt that was a bit too much. Whereas if you take the back door, you can still help the emotional well being through your nutrition, through the exercise, but it’s just doing it in a slightly roundabout way that’s still helpful. Lauren [00:35:00]: I love that metaphor. That was so cool. I’m going to use that with clients. That’s beautiful. Alexia [00:35:07]: Yeah. I think that can really help whether they haven’t got the emotional strength, because I think tackling anxiety does require you with the work I do around getting helping people to get rid of their phobias. With my approach, you have to eyeball the phobia, have to eyeball the fear. And that takes a lot of guts, though, to do that. A lot of people can’t, that’s too difficult for them to do. It is because of maybe the trauma, whatever they’ve gone through. And so to help those people still bring about a transformation, maybe the gentle approach is what works best for them because they can take it easier and this is where I use the back. But the garden approach where you can build up strength in other ways so that you can then come back to the Phobia and then deal with that once you’ve got more emotional strength within you to be able to deal with that totally well. Lauren [00:35:50]: And I always love to have an anxiety hierarchy with clients and myself of where am I at in of how anxiety poking this is for me, I always say, and the research shows the sweet spot is like a four to six. So if you’re like at a four to six range, in of a scale of one to ten, that tells us like, okay, this is a good challenge, let’s go for it. But if it’s like a seven to ten for you of like, this is going to be too much for me to face this right now. We’ve got to honour that, right? It’s not always just about pushing through because sometimes that can retraumatize or make the anxiety worse for someone, actually. Alexia [00:36:25]: And what about those that maybe are struggling with maybe kids, new kids, newborns are dealing with this kind of. Lauren [00:36:32]: Anxiety, the existential anxiety, I think, around kids. I really feel that like a new anxiety for the first time of like what happens if something happens to my spouse or something like that, right? It can trigger all kinds of anxieties. I like to use what’s called the four DS. This is from one of my best professors, Dr. Henderson. So this is helpful for parents listening. Some cues that maybe the anxiety is next level and might benefit from some help is if you’re noticing any kind of distress where you yourself are like, I’m worried about how worried I am. This doesn’t seem like my normal pace. Lauren [00:37:06]: And if there’s deviance from your norm right. If you’re noticing this isn’t normal for me or when I’m looking at my peer group and other parents, I’m not hearing them endorse the same level of worrying or checking behaviour. They’re not checking their infants multiple times in the night to see if they’re breathing okay. What could be going on there? There’s any kind of dysfunction if you’re not able to keep up with the things in your life, if you’re not able to go to the paediatrician appointment or maybe go to your exercise routine, right. Because you feel like I can’t keep up with my life. And lastly, if there’s any kind of danger and we have to normalise this last point, if you yourself are feeling unsafe, if you’re having thoughts of I just wish I wasn’t alive for this right now, or if I could just go to sleep and never wake up. Or if you’re feeling danger towards others, those are all signs that it would be good to get some for those symptoms. And we got to normalise all of that because postpartum anxiety is actually more common than postpartum depression. Alexia [00:38:07]: I think prenatal anxiety isn’t talked about enough as well because prenatal anxiety is huge and we hear a lot about postpartum depression, so we hear a lot about that. But I think those women that suffer extreme anxiety the minute they find out they’re pregnant, a lot of those women possibly have tokophobia and they don’t realise that tocophobia is a thing. No awareness of that. So they’re wrestling with these feelings that they literally don’t understand. And I know that I’ve got clients that suddenly their anxiety just goes off the chart the minute they’re pregnant. The minute baby comes out, everything’s back to normal again. That the carrying of a baby in their body is kind of the stuff that really just explodes the anxiety for them. Just talk a little bit about some prenatal anxiety with work that you do. Lauren [00:38:47]: And I’m so glad that you bring that up because it definitely is not talked about enough and a lot of times people do get surprised by that experience. What’s hard is that in any other situation, pretty much you are consenting to the exposure, right? Like when I was doing my exposure therapy for emetophobia. I am choosing to look at pictures of videos of people vomiting. When you’re pregnant, you’re not necessarily choosing whether or not you want to have that exposure. It is happening to you. I being pregnant and saying it’s like I’ve gotten on a roller coaster and I can’t get off the ride. And that almost can really have feelings of claustrophobia for people, right. That sense of entrapment. Lauren [00:39:26]: So that’s where that mindfulness piece is really key of the distress tolerance of like, I’m feeling uncomfortable in my body right now and that’s okay, it’s not fun, but let me sit through this and sit in this and bring in too. Whether it’s your partner or someone else in your life, there’d be so many times where I would voice to my partner, I’m feeling kind of panicky right now. Can you sit by me? And I’d like to hold your hand kind of thing, right? And music is huge. I think music can really help us get into another headspace. When my son was born, I had a whole birth playlist and that really affected my mood. So lean into music or whatever engages you from a senses standpoint and that can help you too, when we’re starting to really get in our head with the anxiety. Alexia [00:40:15]: Yeah, music is a game changer. Actually, I’m glad you mentioned it because it’s so simple and it’s something that we all have access to readily. Knowing which tunes can really lift you. I’ve got some good tunes, tunes that always get me going and that I love knowing what music that having all of that maybe stored on your phone or make yourself a spotify playlist where you’ve got them to hand really easily. I think it’s creating these little shortcuts so that when you are in a state like that, you can reach for stuff easily. And the one thing that I notice is that when I’m not in a good place, I’ve got loads of tools and things that I use, but when I’m not in place, I forget all of them. You’re in that state and you’re like after something like, oh my God, I could have done this and I could have done this and I’m like, why did I not do any of that? And I feel like I need to have a great big notice up. So it’s saying like, if you’re feeling crap today, do go through this list. Alexia [00:41:05]: I’m just thinking of there any little really easy go to like the music, one you just shared. Lauren [00:41:10]: We love to help people create like a self care kit and it engages all the senses. So what’s something you can touch? Whether it’s like a little fabric or something that feels nice for you? What’s something you can smell? Aromatherapy is huge and peppermint is especially a good one for anxiety and helps with nausea too. What can you hear? Whether it’s sound with music or a sound machine is really helpful. I love listening to mindfulness guided mindfulness with the Calm app and I believe maybe you’ll know better than I, but there’s a hypnobirthing app that got me through my pregnancy. So everybody should it. I want to say it’s called Calm Birth. That is so, so good. And then your other senses, what am I forgetting? A sight? What is something visually that’s great for you? Whether it’s a picture of your family that you have in this box or maybe a quote that you like to read, taste. Whether it’s peppermint candy, a piece of gum, or sour candy helps with anxiety. Lauren [00:42:07]: So have it all in a little box, your self care, soothing box. And that can be some nice things to turn to. Alexia [00:42:13]: Yeah, but maybe not the bottle of wine for your taste because that might. Lauren [00:42:15]: Not be a good. Alexia [00:42:18]: I know a lot of new mothers do turn to that. I joke. But actually the glass of wine is and also drinking is such a certainly within British culture, it’s such an accepted if you suddenly announce that you’re not drinking anymore, you’ve got to deal with a lot of, kind of friction from people going, what are you doing? Why look at you not being fun anymore. This kind of like there’s a lot of culture around drinking, but also when you have that, there’s an association, a very powerful association, that when you take that first sip of wine, it just feels like you’re and when you’ve had kids screaming around all day. There is a huge thing with mums getting together, having wine, and then before they know it, they’re drinking wine every night and maybe husband’s away or he’s working late and they’re drinking half a bottle a night, maybe a bottle a night. And it can kind of escalate very rapidly, I think, with dealing with that new mum anxiety and the stress of navigating that journey. I don’t know. Do you want to talk to that? Lauren [00:43:16]: No doubt about it. That is so true. And one thing that I think can be helpful in of deciding whether or not to drink, we see that alcohol is really inflammatory and really contributes to the increase of anxiety. If you even start to test it out of like, how do I feel the next day after I drink? A lot of people will tell you, I actually noticed a spike up in my anxiety. It creates this negative loop. And the other piece too is we know that alcohol affects not just the first night of sleep, but the second night of sleep. And if you’re drinking every other day, your sleep cycle is never getting a chance to recalibrate. And sleep is a huge part of anxiety and depression as well. Lauren [00:44:00]: That to me is like enough of a buy-in of like, oh yes, I don’t want that increase in anxiety any more than is already happening in my body. And if alcohol is something I can do to reduce fat by cutting back on the inflammation, then that’s something that I think can be good. And it’s nice to see, I’m seeing a lot more like a mocktail culture of more fun drinks that don’t have to have the alcohol in it. So we’re still getting the culture and community of drinking something together, but not having to have alcohol in it. Alexia [00:44:32]: Yeah. So, yeah, cutting back on alcohol is really another little thing you can do to start reducing the anxiety that you’re feeling. Yes, I love that. I’m just going to recap. What I’ve ed is you’ve got your self care kit, you’ve got your trying to sit through the discomfort moments, like the itchy nose thing. That was a really good one. Also choosing some tracks or things that you can sit on, like meditation, like mindfulness tracks, whatever’s going to work for you, do it for you. While we’re on tracks. Alexia [00:44:59]: I really like mantras. I really got into an artist called David Permel and she’s got some really wonderful mantras. They’re often played at yoga classes. She’s got that kind of music going on. But just sitting with some of these, I found that because there was a vocal that I could hang on to and maybe learn, but because it was Sanskrit, I never really knew what they were, so but it was a really useful hook for my mind to just kind of follow it. And I found those very, very calming. And then what else have you mentioned? Self care kit. Lauren [00:45:23]: I think that covers it. Well, maybe give acupuncture a try. But yeah, nutrition is really big for people. And you mentioned, now, there was a study that just came out of Australia that they found that exercise was more effective than therapy and psychiatric medication. So not great for my mean, obviously therapy is helpful, but exercise is huge. So I always think that’s a really good entry point for folks. If you can get out for a 20 minute walk, we see changes in the brain even at just that level. So it’s absolutely worth it. Alexia [00:45:57]: Brilliant. Well, Lauren, thank you so much for sharing all your expertise on anxiety. Now, if people want to find out more about you, your book, where can they track you down? And also your socials. I mean, you’re prolific on lots of platforms, so tell us where we can find you. Lauren [00:46:10]: Well, generation anxiety comes up. September 19 is the official day. I’m so excited because we have a special publisher with Watkins that’s doing specifically UK and the whole Commonwealth. You can get on Amazon or wherever you like to buy your books. You can follow along on Instagram and TikTok. I love doing a good mental health meme, and then I speak internationally with teams. So if your company really wants to bring this conversation about anxiety, please us. I would love to be a part of that conversation with your group. Alexia [00:46:40]: Thank you. Thank you so much, Lauren, for ing me on the Fear Free Childbirth podcast. Lauren [00:46:45]: Thank you, Alexia. Be well. 

In today’s episode, we dive deep into the world of perimenopause and how it intersects with the postnatal period. With so many women waiting until later in life to have children, this is an important topic for women to get their heads around. Postnatal meets Perimenopause To help us do that, I am ed by my guest, Linda Stephens, who brings her expertise and insights on women’s health to help you navigate this transitional stage in your life. We explore the hormonal changes, physical symptoms, and emotional challenges that can arise during this time. Together, we discover how understanding and nurturing our bodies can lead to a graceful transition and a renewed sense of self. Some of the key questions we explore include: What are some common symptoms experienced by women during the perimenopause stage? How do these symptoms compare to those experienced after childbirth? How can understanding the natural hormonal cycle of women help them navigate their energy levels and productivity throughout the month? How can create a more ive and accommodating environment for women during the perimenopause transition? How can taking care of the adrenal glands help hormonal balance during the perimenopause stage? Why there is a lack of awareness and knowledge about this treatment option among healthcare professionals? What are some techniques or practices mentioned in the episode that can help shift the body into a parasympathetic state and adrenal care? How can we prioritise good fats, fiber, and quality carbohydrates in our diet to our hormones? How societal expectations and pressures impact women’s approach to exercise during this stage of life? Why it is important for women to educate themselves about the changes they will experience during the late 30s to post-menopause stage? How can women embrace the “wise woman” phase and let go of societal pressures to stay young and slim? What steps can we take to promote positive self-acceptance and embrace the changes in our bodies during this stage of life? Resources mentioned during the episode To help you make the most of this information, here’s a comprehensive list of resources mentioned in the podcast: 1. Fear Clearance Tracks Audio tracks designed to reduce fears related to pregnancy and childbirth. These tracks address common fears such as fear of pregnancy, fear of childbirth, fear of losing control, fear of losing dignity, fear of change, and fear of uncertainty. NEW TRACK NOW AVAILABLE: Fear of Pregnancy. View all fear clearance tracks here 2. Birth Wound Healing Activation MP3: This Healing Activation was created to help you to heal from the emotional wounds and traumas related to any birth experiences you’ve had. This would benefit those who have had difficult or traumatic birth experiences. But because we’ve ALL had a birth experience: our own arrival into the world, then everyone would benefit from this wound healing track. Particularly those who suffer from Tokophobia, because often, the trauma that is at the root of their phobia is the trauma of their own birth. This birth wound healing track also helps you to release ancestral trauma. If your mother or grandmother (or great grandmother) had a difficult birth, then you will be carrying the memories of those experiences and they could be affecting how you feel about pregnancy or birth. 3. Fear Free Childbirth Shop Visit www.fearfreechildbirth.com to access these resources that aim to provide emotional and healing for individuals facing anxieties and fears related to pregnancy, childbirth, and postnatal experiences. 4. Linda Stevens Wellbeing Explore Linda’s offerings, including online courses, retreats, and workshops, to your journey through perimenopause and women’s health. The Bathroom Method Bootcamp: Access free exercises and guided meditations designed to strengthen your pelvic floor and enhance your overall well-being. 5. Dr. Mindy Pelz She is an expert in women’s health and intermittent fasting. Her YouTube channel offers valuable insights and guidance on optimizing your health. https://www.youtube.com/@DrMindyPelz Books by Dr. Mindy Pelz: “Fast This Way: Burn Fat, Heal Inflammation, and Eat Like the High-Performing Human You Were Meant to Be”, “The Menopause Reset: Restoring Balance and Well-Being Naturally” 6. Yoga Nidra A guided relaxation practice that can help you achieve deep rest and balance your nervous system. You can find yoga nidra sessions online or through various meditation apps. 7. App for Tracking Your Cycle Linda mentioned the Balance app which can provide insights into your unique rhythm. https://www.balance-menopause.com/balance-app/ 8. Adrenal Care Linda emphasizes the importance of adrenal care to manage stress and hormonal balance. Explore relaxation techniques, such as extended exhalation, low vibrational toning, and conscious rest, to your adrenal glands. 9. Nutrition for Hormones Dr. Mindy Pelz recommends exploring intermittent fasting and paying attention to the timing of your meals to hormonal health. Focus on quality carbohydrates, good fats, and nutrient-dense foods. 10. Yoga and Movement Engage in activities like yoga, walking in nature, and gentle exercises to promote physical and mental well-being. These practices can help you connect with your body and reduce stress. that your path to optimal health is unique, and it’s essential to listen to your body and intuition. These resources offer valuable guidance and as you navigate perimenopause and embrace your feminine wisdom. Take a step towards greater well-being and empowerment by exploring these resources and incorporating them into your daily life. Episode Timestamps 00:00:01 “Fear Free Childbirth podcast helps navigate postnatal perimenopause. New fear clearance and wound healing tracks added.” 00:08:33 Late pregnancies, perimenopause, and hormone imbalance explained. 00:10:46 Low progesterone, oestrogen, and baby blues fatigue. Women’s brains need these hormones to function well. Going into perimenopause after childbirth. 00:16:43 Track your cycle and symptoms for empowerment. 00:20:47 Estrogen is vital for energy and health. 00:25:44 Having a baby challenges control and identity. 00:34:44 New vaginal oestrogen available in the UK. 00:37:40 Breath, rest, nutrition, and less stress. 00:46:52 Ideal fitness: consider adrenals, intermittent exercise, calming. 00:50:37 Trying different strategies, accepting personal changes. 00:53:04 Freedom in surrender, conscious choices, letting go. 00:56:14 Free exercise and meditation for women. Episode Guest Meet Linda Stephens, the Women’s Wellbeing Warrior, dedicated to reawakening core strength in midlife women. With a belief that core health is true wealth, Linda empowers women through her expertise. Discover Linda Stephens at www.lindastephenswellbeing.me. For a comprehensive peri-post menopause wellbeing resource, visit her at www.womenswellbeing.me. Don’t forget to check out her Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/lindastephenswellbeing for valuable Women’s Wellbeing information and videos. her at [email protected]. Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:01]: You’re listening to the Fear Free Childbirth podcast with me, Alexia Leachman. Let me help you to take the fear out of pregnancy, birth and beyond with a mix of real life stories and experts sharing their wisdom. I’ll also be sharing psychology insights to help you to cultivate a fearless mindset, be inspired and be empowered with Fear Free Childbirth . And now it’s time for the show.  Hello and welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. My name is Alexa Leachman. Thank you so much for ing me today. On today’s show, we’re going to be talking about where postnatal meets the perimenopause with a lot of mums that are now having babies later in their life, some mums are facing the perimenopause while going through the postnatal period. So today I’m being ed by Linda, who’s going to help us navigate this delicate stage in life so that you can better manage it and not be succumb to the cocktail of hormones that might be chucking themselves your way as you wrestle with a new baby. But before I hand over to that, I just want to update you on a couple of things I added to the shop this week, the Fear Free Childbirth Shop. Now, as you know, I’m all about helping you to reduce the fear that you’re carrying around birth and pregnancy. And I’ve got quite a lot of fear clearance tracks in the Fear Free Childbirth store and I’ve been recording some new ones. So I just wanted to let you know about the new ones that have just been added. Now, for some reason, I don’t know how this even was a thing was possible, but I didn’t actually have a fear clearance track for a fear of pregnancy. But now I have. So now you can buy a fear of pregnancy fear clearance track, as well as a fear of childbirth fear clearance track. There are other ones in there also for common fears that women experience around birth and pregnancy, including fear of losing control, fear of losing your dignity, fear of change, fear of uncertainty. All those are already in there as well. And they would be very useful for you to listen to, to benefit from, if you want to let go of the fear. People are getting amazing results listening to these tracks and it can make a huge difference to how you’re feeling. Very, very quickly, I’ve just added fear of pregnancy, so just head over to fearfreechildbirth.com shop or store, that kind of thing, and then you will find the fear clearance audios in the shop. And I’m also creating some wound healing tracks. So these are really about healing traumas and the emotional wounds that you’re carrying around things. And there is also now a birth wound healing. So for many people, this might mean that when they gave birth and it was difficult or traumatic or it has left an emotional trace of some sort for them, that whenever they think of that birth as a little bit of pang of sadness or guilt or something that’s just not pleasant. It doesn’t have to be a full blown traumatic experience. But if there’s any kind of wounding that you’re carrying on the topic of birth or the idea of birth, this will be ideal for you if you have suffered from a birth experience that wasn’t pleasant, that was difficult or traumatic. And maybe when you think of your earlier birth experiences, there’s a little tinge of sadness or something that’s not entirely pleasant comes up for you. Whether it’s a full blown, kind of really nightmare experience or whether it wasn’t a nightmare, but for some reason you just can’t shake there’s something that you can’t shake about that experience, then that wound healing will be perfect for you. Also, this is going to be perfect for those that suffer from tokophobia, because the thing about tokophobia and any phobia is that there’s usually a root trauma going on there that’s feeding the phobia. And for many that suffer from tokophobia, this root event, this root trauma could well be your own birth experience the time that you arrived in the world. So this birth wound healing is for you too. It’s really all encapsulating to capture any experiences of birth that you’ve had. And obviously we’ve all experienced birth because we’re all here and we’ve all come through from our mothers. So we all have a birth experience within us and memories of that and maybe some of the fears and anxieties that you’re experiencing are as a result of your own birth experience. So this birth wound healing really does capture your own experience of birth, any experiences that your mother may have had while she was carrying you or the memories that she had, because it also looks at ancestral trauma. And this is an element that we really can’t dismiss when it comes to traumas because they have such an impact on who we are today, because the very memories of ancestral trauma are baked within the fabric of our very being. So letting go of any wounding that you’re carrying around the idea of birth is going to really help you no matter what your situation is in of facing pregnancy and birth. If you’re planning for a family, even if you’ve not got pregnant yet, if there’s any tinge of fear or anxiety around birth, then maybe it’s to do with your own birth experience. So I would recommend this birth wound healing for anyone really that considers themselves anxious or fearful or scared or even worried about birth or pregnancy. This is going to be a good one for you. So just all you need to do is head over to the Fear Free Childbirth shop and it’s in the Wound Healing Activation section along with many, many other Wound Healing Activations for other things that are very, very common. A lot of childhood themes are in there. Lots of inner child themes. As you know, I’m all about you self healing, helping you to really heal your own fears and anxieties so that you can be empowered, feel confident and calm as you go into your birth experiences. That’s what I really, really want for you. So I’m always looking at ways that I can make that journey as easy for you and as simple for you so that you can own that experience. You can be in charge of your own mental health and emotional well being. Back to today’s show, then. So today I’m chatting to Linda. You may recognise Linda, who’s been on the show before, and she talked all about yoga and how yoga can you during your pregnancy and birth experiences, especially the yoga moves. And the way that yoga can you in of helping you to train and get your body ready, but also how you can use it during labour. So you may recognise Linda, and if you want to dig out the old episode, I would urge you to go and do that, and I’ll put a link in the show notes for that. But we’re going to be talking today about that transitional journey from postnatal to perimenopause. And the reason I really wanted to have this conversation is because this perimenopause can really start very early for some women, maybe late 30s, early 40s, but that’s also when many women are now choosing to have their babies because they’re leaving it later. So it could be that you are wrestling with early signs of perimenopause while you’re breastfeeding a newborn. And so the cocktail of hormones that’s going on, you could be feeling like you’re really being battered left, right and centre and not knowing how to handle all that. And that can be very unsettling, very overwhelming, very emotional. So Linda’s going to talk through that, how we can start to figure out what’s going on, and maybe even those of you that maybe have got toddlers now and maybe heading into your early 40s, maybe mid to late 40s, depending on when perimenopause hits for you. This is going to be useful for you too, as you navigate this important next stage in your life. This is a stage that I’m going through at the moment. So I found this interview incredibly helpful and validating for some things that I’m also starting to try out in my life. So I think this is going to be a really important conversation. And even for those that maybe have a little bit long way off from perimenopause, listen to this, because this is coming your way. So you might as well start getting ready and thinking about it because there’s some really useful, timeless advice that Linda shares that goes beyond the perimenopausal phase in of just how to live a healthy life and have a healthy pregnancy. So let me just hand over to my chat with Linda. I hope you enjoy it. Hello, Linda. Welcome to the podcast. Linda [00:07:39]: Thank you so much for having me, Alexia. It’s lovely to be back. Alexia [00:07:42]: Now, for those eagle eyed well, not eagle eyed, but eagle eared among you. You might recognise Linda’s voice because we’ve spoken before on the podcast talking all about yoga and the moves that can help you to prepare for birth. But Linda also works with the whole gamut of well being for women. And so we’re going to dive into another really important part of the journey today that I think more and more women are really experiencing, and that is that postnatal to perimenopause phase where some women, because they’re birthing later, are diving from one straight into the other. Let’s just start with postnatal, first of all, and what’s happening with the hormones so that we can start to understand how this hormonal mix is correlating or how it bleeds. Not bleed. Bleeds. Isn’t that useful word I just picked that doesn’t bleed? Linda [00:08:29]: That’s the thing. Alexia [00:08:30]: Straight into the perimenopause phase. What’s going on? Linda [00:08:33]: It’s kind of like a whole societal thing, isn’t it, where we are finding that women are having pregnancies later on in life. So it’s not unusual at all to be in your late 30s, even early 40s, when you’re having even your first baby. And the thing is, roughly on average, women will start to go into perimenopause between 35 and 38 years old. So perimenopause literally means you’re starting to have an ovulatory cycle. Your menstrual cycle isn’t actually around you, it’s not defined by your period. It’s defined by your ovulation in the middle of the cycle. And if your ovaries are not releasing an egg in the middle of that cycle, you’re not producing progesterone, which is our key chill out hormone. It’s the hormone that is anti anxiety. It helps us to sleep. It’s a smooth lining of the gut. So it’s incredibly important in about 400 different pathways in our body and our brain. So if we’re not producing progesterone in the second part of our cycle, we start to experience all sorts of issues which are very, very similar to what we are experiencing when we’ve just given birth and we’ve just birthed our placenta. And our progesterone level just absolutely plummets along with oestrogen levels. Early perimenopause, when we start to have those ovulatory cycles, progesterone is starting to drop away quite rapidly, more so than oestrogen. So we tend to see from about 38, we’re starting to have not every cycle, but quite often we’re starting to have those and ovulatory cycles. We’re starting to diminish in our production, our ovarian production of progesterone, from about 35 to about 50, we lose about 70% of that ovarian production of progesterone and about 45. So mid 40s, we start to diminish our production of oestrogen. And it’s a dysregulation. It’s when our oestrogen is a bit high in comparison to the progesterone. That’s when we are experiencing night sweats, brain fog, heart palpitations. Itchiness, dry eyes, dry mouth, pelvic floor issues. As you can see, it’s very, very similar to straight. Alexia [00:10:46]: Boom. Linda [00:10:46]: We’ve had a baby going into that period where the progesterone is super low, oestrogen is low as well, maybe not quite as low as progesterone and baby blues. Unbelievable fatigue being wired, but tired, not being able to sleep when baby sleeps. And the problem is, women are going from losing that progesterone, having birthed their baby, losing that oestrogen, being very low on these key hormones. And it’s really important to understand that women are… our brains are oestrogen rich, male brains are testosterone rich. Our brains are oestrogen rich. So we need these key hormones to function well. And we’re going straight from this period of being very low in these key hormones straight into perimenopause. So it’s not like we’re going back up and reaching sort of mid 20s levels of our normal hormone production again. And our ovaries are going back into production, they’re not. We might have ended up getting pregnant, because what happens is, when our ovaries are starting to shut up shop, they’ll have big bursts of oestrogen. So it’s like one more baby, one more baby. So you might actually be very low in oestrogen, but suddenly you have these spikes like this, and it might be in that spike in one month where you are ovulating that you get pregnant, but then those hormones that start to crush down afterwards. So, of course, pregnancy, our body goes into hyperdrive and we produce a ton of progesterone. But once that’s all gone post pregnancy, and if we are in our early 40s or late 30s, you are a totally average, normal woman if you are then in perimenopause. Alexia [00:12:23]: So you mentioned there’s a change in the cycle. What did you call it? Linda [00:12:27]: An ovulatory cycle simply means that you don’t produce an egg, that cycle. So you can still be having a period. I might be a little bit scantier, a little bit closer together, a little bit further apart, but to be honest, most of us of our generation don’t really track our periods like the younger girls do these days. You might not even notice that you’re not ovulating. And it might be just that you’re starting to really suffer with insomnia or you’re starting to find that you get really severe PMT, because, of course, PMT, our progesterone is so d with our level, our mood levels. So if you’re already very low in progesterone right before your period, you’re going to be getting really snarky and bitchy and flying off the handle. People will, or a lot of women, experience much worse digestive issues. IBS issues get way worse because progesterone is incredibly important in the thumping action, if you like, of the intestines. It’s really important to know that if you are experiencing classic perimenopausal symptoms and you’ve got a new baby and potentially other slightly older children as well, and you feel like you’re going mad, it’s not you, it’s your hormones. Alexia [00:13:47]: It’s all made for hormones. Linda [00:13:50]: But there’s an awful lot of things that we can do to help ourselves. And I would say it starts with education on what is actually going on with your body. And it really needs to graduate through a total paradigm shift on how we approach wellbeing. Women’s wellbeing, at this very crucial stage, and I would say from your late 30s through to post menopause, so 52, 53, 54 that decade or so is not a time to be pushing through, trying to do a marathon, trying to beat these fitness goals, et cetera, et cetera. It is really a time, and this is probably a bit controversial saying this, because we all want to know that we can do more, more and more. It’s time to stop up the leaky colander, yeah. Does that make sense? Or the leaky boat. It’s a time to really focus on adrenal care, because our adrenal glands take over the production, the key production of those hormones when our ovaries shut up. So, yeah, I’d like to talk a little bit more about that because I think that’s super, super important. And it’s a time of actually kind of stepping into the whole wise woman phase, which, yes, is hard when you’ve got little children around and you’re trying to look after a baby, et cetera. And a lot of women need to go through a grieving process, a letting go process of the younger them, and actually almost do as stepping in a metaphorical, stepping in of this new aspect of themselves. So it can be extraordinary transitional, an extraordinary transitional time. It can be an incredibly empowering time, but not if you listen to the media, which is totally focused on staying young and slim and basically looking like you’re 25 forever. It’s really got to be learning about what is going on with your body and embracing being a woman in midlife and how exciting actually it’s going to be in the second spring, they call it, after menopause. We enjoy that second spring when we actually nurture the body and the brain in this midpoint, this decade or so of huge transition, just as hormonally huge as going into puberty, just as huge. Alexia [00:16:24]: You talk about raising self awareness, so does this awareness. Are you talking about educating yourself around this transition, around the impact of hormones, or about being more aware about where you are in your cycle and how you’re responding? And I think you’re going to say both, but what did you mean when you said you need to become more aware? Linda [00:16:43]: A lot of women will go from having a baby and they won’t necessarily start cycling again on a regular basis. Perimenopause and then they might end up having a few periods, but they might be quite scanty and quite all over the place. Yes, having an awareness of your cycle, cycle tracking is so powerful. It really is. And starting to track your symptoms as well. So starting to track when you have a migraine, when you are leaking, when you find that you’re getting stress, incontinence or urgency issues. Tracking when you have Insomnia, tracking when your skin gets really super, itchy because by tracking what’s going on. So just keeping a little journal and every evening maybe just jotting down what your energy levels are like, tracking how much water you’re drinking, how your body is responding to any kind of exercise and movement you’re doing. If you feel knackered or if you feel energised it is really empowering for you. Because when they say know thyself, you have to know thyself because we’re all very different. So my levels of natural progesterone from when I was in my twenty s and thirty s will be different from yours. Yeah. So what’s normal for me and if I went to go and do a blood test, is going to be very different from you. And the trouble is doing, to be honest, the trouble with doing blood tests in perimenopause is that literally, day to day, almost hour to hour, our hormones are all over the place. You might go and see what your hormone levels are doing by going and having a blood test. But when you’re there, if you just happen to be having a spike in your oestrogen, then you’re going to look like you’ve got regular levels of oestrogen. But it might be that later on that day your oestrogen levels are plummeting down. So it’s very difficult to have blood tests that will actually show what is going on with your hormones. Unless you are on HRT, that’s a different story. Then it’s more telling the doctor how your body is absorbing the hormone replacement therapy. But prior to that, it’s more about your symptoms. So there is this called the Green Climactic scale and doctors will get you to fill in a very, very detailed form which will show them via all of your symptoms, roughly where you probably are in your perimenopausal journey. Alexia [00:19:23]: Yeah. And I know that there are lots of apps out there that enable you to do this. I just wonder if you’ve got any recommendations, any apps that you really like or that really work and help you because it’s all very well tracking the symptoms or what I’d really want from an app is, oh, you’ve got this. That means it’s this hormone, like to translate that information meaningful rather than just you just go, oh right, I’m just, I get really angry on it, whatever it is, to kind of turn into something useful. Are there any apps that help? Linda [00:19:49]: Balance app is very good. So the balance app was developed by Newson Health. It’s kind of like the initial one, the first one, and it’s great. I would recommend the Balance app to just to track your cycles and things and just getting to know a little bit. I mean, you can just go and look on, I mean, I’ve got lots of articles on what these hormones do. It’s just important to know that progesterone, it’s your mood regulating, calming chill hormone. So if you’re feeling like you’re going to kill somebody or you’re going to throw a chair through the window, or you find yourself just screaming at the kids and then going, oh, my God, where did that monster erupt from? Then it’s probably that you are low on progesterone and we really need to look at caring for your adrenal glands. So your adrenal glands can be producing the progesterone that your ovaries are no longer producing. Does that make sense? Alexia [00:20:46]: Yeah. Linda [00:20:47]: Whereas oestrogen is our focus, it’s our drive, it’s our energy, it’s our get up and go. It’s the elastic in our skin, it’s the ability to respond to a bit of impact and not wear your pants or the detrusor muscles of the bladder to not be inappropriately spasming and making you have urgent continents. Oestrogen does so many, it keeps the heart pliable. It’s an essential hormone to keep our bones growing. It’s absolutely essential for our brain. So if you’re suffering more from issues around dryness, depletion, itchiness of the skin, dryness and  itchiness of the eyes and mouth. Yes. Inability to sleep as well, then it might be that oestrogen is the main problem. I’m just going to caveat that by saying progesterone and oestrogen, they work like the sisters that fight, but essentially they fundamentally need each other. So they work well when they are in balance. When we are premenopausal, so not peri, but pre. So when we’re just ovulating every month beautifully, then we’ve got very high levels of oestrogen and pretty high levels of progesterone. And they just, we are changing constantly, but they’re pretty balanced. And then we go into if we’ve had a baby, we go into this postnatal period and they both plummet down, but especially progesterone. And it’s the differential, this is the tricky bit. It’s the differential between oestrogen and progesterone. So if they’re not nice and balanced and close together, if one’s up high and one’s down low and it’s normally oestrogen that’s higher and progesterone that’s lower, that’s normally the case. It’s that differential which causes most of the symptoms that women will recognise as being perimenopausal. So this is what happens when we go into early perimenopause. I’m going to say postnatal is, say late 30s, early 40s. Give us another year or so and we’re in perimenopause. Perimenopause, the progesterone drops down first and around about 45, roughly, sometimes 43, 44. That’s when the oestrogen starts to go, one more baby. No, one more baby. No, one more baby. And when the oestrogen is high and the progesterone is low, it’s those days, but it’s that time which is really difficult. So one of the things that women who are especially those experiencing real mood issues, depression in a postnatal stage and who are in maybe late 30s, early 40s, going to the GP, it would be worth talking about perimenopausal issues and maybe supplementing progesterone. So these days we can get body identical progesterone. It is exactly the same molecular structure as the progesterone that we produce ourselves from our ovaries or adrenal glands. It’s not a progestogen, so it’s not the same as what’s in the pill or in the coil, which is a progestogen. It’s a synthetic version. So progesterone, it’s supplied in the UK as a product called Utrogestan. It’s micronised means basically, it’s bashed into tiny, tiny, tiny little pieces, little capsule, and it can be taken orally or intra, vaginally, up the vagina, and that can supplement, it can bring up your levels of natural your natural levels of progesterone, so that there isn’t such a differential between the oestrogen and the progesterone. That is going to help with mood disorders, anxiety, heart palpitations, insomnia, depressive feelings, because we’re actually working at the hormonal level. Whereas an antidepressant, it can help. It can help, but it’s not actually a long term solution, if you like. So really important to work with a GP who understands women’s health and has been kind of recently trained in women’s health and understanding that it’s highly likely if you’re an older mum, that you are going straight into perimenopause. Alexia [00:25:03]: So to recap, it’s really about tracking your symptoms. It’s really about really upping that self awareness so that you’re able to discern. Because I’m just here, when you think about depression or anxiety, there’s life that creates that kind of stuff as well. So how do you discern that the thing that you’re feeling is a hormonal led situation versus a you’ve actually just got healing to do and stuff like that? How do you figure that out right?  Linda [00:25:31]: This is what I assume is the paradigm shift. And I like to say my kind of motto is being in control of letting go of being in control. Alexia [00:25:41]: Which is the birth thing. Right. That’s a whole birth thing anyway. Yeah. Linda [00:25:44]: To be honest, if you’re going to be, later on in life having a baby, it’s likely not necessarily, but it’s likely that you have had a career. You are having a career, you’re a busy woman, you’re used to juggling all the balls. Likely that you’re somebody who’s used to being in control and getting things done, and then you’ve been busy, busy, busy. And then it’s like and you know what? I think I would like to have a child as well. In my experience, and including myself here, when you have, and we’ll say, A type personalities, even though that’s bollocks, isn’t it? But if you’re used to being in control of a situation, suddenly you might be the CEO of a big company and suddenly you’re in a situation. We’ve got this little scrap of a little person who shows you very dramatically that you have no control. Actually, that was a total illusion. It can be such a shattering of the ego. And when you’re dealing with that kind of shattering of the ego and you’re also deeply sleep deprived it can lead to a full on breakdown of who you think that you are in this life. That’s why if I could just talk to every woman going into perimenopause and just say girlfriend, this is not a time to smash the glass ceilings and to push through you have nothing to prove. This is the time to deeply and holistically revere your female form. Be thankful that you have managed your body. This extraordinary the trillions and trillions of cells, the condensed energy that makes up this physical manifestation that you’re inhabiting in this lifetime has created a human being. Now that’s huge. To expect yourself to also then be running your business and potentially looking after other children and older parents and running your social media and doing all the WhatsApp groups with school and having all of these tabs open and your adrenal glands, which have not changed how they operate. Neither have your ovaries for 300,000 years. They don’t know about all of this stuff. They just see it as stress. Stress, stress, stress, stress, stress, stress, stress, stress. You’ve got so much stress going on girlfriend right now that the adrenal glands are going we have to keep on pushing out cortisol and adrenaline and cortisol and adrenaline and cortisol and adrenaline and we are in this totally revved never turning off state. Totally, totally revved and the trouble is there’s this thing called pregnant alone steel so your adrenal glands once the ovaries start to shut up shop so once they start to diminish their production fair enough. They’ve been popping out those eggs month after month for decades and they are now slowing down. They don’t have as many eggs to pop out anymore so they’re starting to shut up shop. Your adrenal glands need to be nourished and looked after and revered. And instead the adrenals, the pregnenolone, which is the master hormone, if you like, that the adrenal glands produce that pregnant alone either goes to creating progesterone and oestrogen testosterone. Or if you’re it’s going to keep pushing out cortisol and adrenaline instead, and you’re not going to get that really essential oestrogen and progesterone. So not only have your ovaries shut up shot but your adrenal glands are not taking over the job like they should be. So it’s more for us. It’s more for us because we are still being hoodwinked by society to think that we should be little men and have a baby and we should be men in a skirt who are able to work at a level constantly and not understand that what we are doing is we are going into adrenal revving and fatigue. So we have a tiny bit of testosterone that we produce in the middle of our cycle if we ovulate about a 10th of the testosterone that men produce. Men produce testosterone every 15 minutes consistently up until about. 70. And that’s what gives them the ability to constantly go get up at 09:00 and go to work and work through till six or whatever and be whereas with a woman, we have this extraordinary flux through a normal cycle, which is completely shafted once we get to perimenopause. But through a normal cycle, once you’ve just had your period and your oestrogen is soaring, most women for those first couple of weeks before ovulation, they’re like, on it. We can get 200% done in those times. We can get all the stuff done. We’re very sharp here and then we ovulate, and then we go into this progesterone time of being as we’re going towards our periods. And that’s not the time to be pushing through, especially right before your period. That’s the time where we can be creative, we can come up with extraordinary out of the box solutions to things, but it is not the time to be trying to be really articulate in meetings and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. By understanding your cycle and the general cycle, understanding what these key hormones allow us to do, understanding our extraordinarily unique female hormonal makeup and actually shifting into I’m not going to keep being that pushing forward woman who basically tries to be a small man because that’s what society has asked of us. And instead of insisting all of us need to do it together, we’ve got to all help each other out, insisting that rewrite the playing field, we create a new playing field for women’s bodies and our brains. And this transition time, this decade, if we don’t get it right, the rest of our life is going to be hard. If we do get it right, we can enjoy that second spring. That’s when we can change the world, that’s when we can really make a huge difference. Because our hormones, yes, they’re lower, but they go back into balance again. Alexia [00:32:16]: And it sounds to me like actually you need to be. Whether or not you’re in your late 30s, early 40s, tracking your cycle and being aware of these hormones and how they impact you is something that all women, the minute they start bleeding, should start that process, because it just raises their own level of self awareness and how they need to change and adapt and flux with their cycle. If you start preparing for birth two months before birth, you’ve left it too late. You need to start thinking about it before you’re pregnant. You need to start planning for pregnancy before you’re pregnant. You need to start planning for this before it happens because suddenly you’re learning. You’re having to do a huge steep learning curve while getting stressed and the hormones are battering you because they’re now out of balance. And you’re like, oh. Whereas if you start in your 20s doing this, then by the time it’s coming around, you’re like, oh, yeah, no, this hormone is out of whack. I know what’s going on here and you can get the heads up, whereas otherwise you’re chasing your tail. That’s the sense I’m getting with what you’re saying. Linda [00:33:16]: I think it’s changing quite dramatically. I look at my 18 year old daughter and I’ve got an eleven year old daughter as well. The conversations around women’s health, I mean, obviously this is what I teach, so they hear about this all the time. My daughter tracks her cycle automatically, so do all her friends. It’s just something they do. Whereas I know I’m 51 now and I when I first started my circles, I was deeply embarrassed. I mean, I literally put my hands in my ears and was like, no, I wouldn’t listen to anything that my mum tried to tell me. I was so set on basically diminishing and suppressing anything feminine about me because I wanted to work in advertising and it was a man’s world and I needed to be as masculine as possible and just forget about that diminishing kind of woman’s stuff. Whereas I think this generation, the new generation coming through, are way more open to, and so are men, obviously, as well, the beauty of being a woman. And I think unfortunately, we’re having to play catch up and the women just a decade behind me are also having to play catch up. It’s crazy. There’s only in the last couple of years, and I mean literally since me too, in 2018, that there has been funding for research on the female brain in the life stage, as opposed to just assuming we are little men. Alexia [00:34:41]: I mean, that’s mind blowing, isn’t it? Linda [00:34:44]: And so much information has only been coming out now. I mean, it’s just the fact that vaginal oestrogen has only just come out on prescription here in the UK, so not on prescription where you can get it over the counter here in the UK in the last few means, this is something that almost all women will really, really benefit from. It’s not systemic, it does not go into the bloodstream, it just works on the localised area. But the difference it makes for women who are suffering with stress, incontinence or urgency or urgent continents, who’ve got prolapse organs, who have got scar tissue from an episiotomy or tearing, which is becoming hard to deal with once we start to lose our ovarian oestrogen. Many, many women, I’d say 80% plus women start to deal with pelvic floor dysfunction. Now to get some oestrogen back into the area. Intruder vaginally around the vulva and around the sphincter muscles can make a life changing difference. It can literally mean the difference between a woman not leaving her house and having a fully functional life. And yet it’s only just now comes something that you don’t have to try and get. And most GPS didn’t even know that they could prescribe it or didn’t even know what it did until now. We’re starting to get specialist training for GPS in medical school but it only got mandated last year. It’s a cutting edge topic. It shouldn’t be embarrassingly terrible, but it is. I’ve just jotted down a couple of things that I think that I’d love. Midlife woman. I’m going to say midlife woman for when you’re in your late 30s, early 40s, you kind of midlife should be on your radar. One adrenal care. Yeah. So adrenal care focuses completely away from getting skinny again, looking a certain way and focusing on adrenal care. Your adrenal glands are your primary focus. Adrenal care means what I was talking about before, getting away from being in the rev state where we’re pushing out the cortisol adrenaline and getting into a state where we go into the parasympathetic nervous system. So when we’re in that rev state, it’s the sympathetic nervous system and we have mastery over it’s called the autonomic nervous system, but actually we have mastery over it. We can go into that parasympathetic nervous system and that’s when our adrenals are able to go and start to produce the calming progesterone and they need oestrogen. Alexia [00:37:30]: The adrenals can’t produce both. They’re either on an adrenaline mission or they’re on the other hormone mission. So you need to make sure that you are nurturing them because they can’t do both. Is that right? Linda [00:37:40]: Yeah. So it’s a bit more nuanced than that, but let’s just keep that. So things like extending your exhalation with low vibrational toning. So basically humming or singing, anything that is extending that exhalation is toning your vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve goes from the brain, it goes down through all of the organs of the body. It does not ever get activated if we are breathing, shallow breathing or mouth breathing. It gets activated when we extend the exhalation. When you’re sitting around the fire 300,000 years ago and you’ve done your kill and you’re safe and you’re in your tribe and you’re digesting your food, you’re going to be slow breathing. Yeah, like a baby slow breathing. Elephants slow breathe. Tortoises slow breathe. They live forever. Monkeys breathe really fast and that’s why they don’t live very long. But when you are running from the sabre tooth tiger, when you are fighting, when you are in modern life, when you have got all the tabs open, metaphorically and literally, that’s when we’re in that sympathetic system and we don’t extend our exhalation. We’re fast breathing. So slowing down your breathing rate, learning how to breathe properly, learning how to diaphragmatically breathe, if you know you’re a chest breather, if you know you’re a mouth breather, if you know that you’re habitually. Head forward, like go, go, shoulders rounded. Then sort out your posture. Sort out your breathing. Slow your breathing down. Use the buzzy bee breath. Use the if you got a new baby, use your calm the baby calm yourself. Honestly. That’s the key. It’s really easy. That is the key to getting yourself into that parasympathetic nervous system. Yoga nidra, which is in yoga. Yoga sleep yoga. Nidra means taking yourself for 20 minutes, naps, where you have a guided relaxation, taking you into a deep state of rest, into that parasympathetic nervous system and then bringing you back up again. So you’re not going into sleep, it’s called conscious rest. So you are consciously taking yourself into a state where you are deeply replenishing, deeply replenishing at a cellular level and then coming back up. That is so nourishing for the Adrenals. So especially as a new mum, as you know, bub goes to sleep, you might need to do a little bit of movement. And you know we are animals at the end of the day, so if we’ve got adrenaline pumping through us, we need to release it, literally, shake it out like an animal does. So you might need to do a bit of yoga, a bit of dancing, a bit of just literally shaking. Get out for a walk in nature. If you’ve got someone else to mind the baby for a bit, something that will just release the adrenaline and then resting restorative in a pose just 20 minutes or legs up the wall and extending that exhalation, going into that conscious rest. It doesn’t take much. It does not take much and it’s one of those things, the more you practise it, the easier it is. It’s cumulative. So literally, the more you practise the restorative relaxation response, the faster you can go down into it. Two is nutrition for hormones. So basically you got to start looking at intermittent fasting for women. There’s a lady called Dr. Mindy Pelz who’s an American clinical nutritionist and she talks in great detail about intermittent fasting for women’s health. So our hormonal profile, so basically not snacking late and eating breakfast early, but giving your gut a chance to rest overnight to get the gut biome working as well as possible, because of course our gut biome is so correlated with the oestrogen that we’re producing and progesterone that we’re producing as well. So giving your gut a chance to rest overnight and then when you are eating progesterone, needs quality carbohydrates to be produced. So we need quality carbohydrates. Like I always say, quinol, but I know it’s, other people say quinoa, sweet potato. So good quality carbohydrates. If you’re going to have carbohydrates, it’s not fish and chips, it’s good quality carbohydrates. And then oestrogen actually thrives in a low insulin environment. So making sure you have really good quality protein and we should be having about 30 grams of protein per meal, that’s quite a lot. It’s like a big slab of salmon. Really good quality, good fats. So, you know, before I was talking about the pregnant alone. The Adrenals produce the pregnant lone. So that precursor hormone that will either then produce cortisol or progesterone. And oestrogen, pregnant alone is created by cholesterol. So you need to be having good fats like eggs and salmon and avocados and tons of olive oil in order to create the pregnant alone, that’s going to help you create those hormones. So nutrient dense, good fats, lots of good fiber. So the other thing to know is that if we’re constipated constipation is the number one driver of incontinence issues of bladder incontinence, but it’s also issues we get late in trial 40s. If you’re constipated, we tend to then reabsorb oestrogen, use it and then lose it. We need to be able to detoxify it by pooing it out. And if we’re not, it can be reabsorbed. And then we can find that that differential between the oestrogen and the progesterone gets worse and worse and worse and worse, and symptoms get worse and worse and worse and worse. Getting enough good fibre in the diet in order to make sure that a cup of linseed in the morning with water, very helpful. So number three is do less to do more. So it is the opposite of what we have been taught. If you’re finding yourself that you do have enough energy to and you’re suddenly like, wow, I need to lose this baby weight, which I would say, please just park that. It took nine months to create this baby. Give yourself two years at least in order to lose that weight. It’s much more important that you focus on building your health. But because of the whole Adrenal thing, because of the pushing out of a cortisol, when you’re pushing out cortisol, you have insulin spikes, and it’s those insulin spikes when you’re becoming insulin resistance, which is putting that band of fat around the midsection, which a lot of perimenopause women experience. By doing that conscious rest thing that I’ve just been talking about, by gifting yourself times where your Adrenals are calming down, you’re going to find that you’re going to lose weight doing that way more than in the hour you’ve got off each week. You go, right, I’m going to hit the gym or I’m going to go on a five or ten k run or I’m going to go to a hit class. And then on top of already stressed Adrenals, you’re putting what you think should be exercise, relaxation, but it’s not. It’s actually quite stressful and it’s just pushing up those levels of cortisol even more, pushing up the insulin even more. Alexia [00:45:29]: So what about like a walk in nature, for example? That’s still going to be good for you, but that’s not going to be stressful or hardcore, but it’s also not conscious resting. But I’m just wondering because you’re not sort of lying on the floor. Linda [00:45:43]: Especially if as you’re walking, you’re actually in your senses. You’re looking at the leaves as you them. You’re absorbing the colour, you’re smelling the earth, you’re seeing the trees. You’re being absolutely in the senses. That’s incredibly enlivening and deeply replenishing, deeply restful. So, yes, walking in nature, getting out in nature, doing yoga outside, I reckon I’m stronger now in my 50s than I probably ever have even when I was a gym bunny. I mean, yoga can be deeply restorative, but it can be incredibly strengthening, bone enhancing, muscle enhancing yoga and isometric pilates and be very consciously regulating your breath. So you are calming your adrenals breathing beautifully and you’re doing extraordinarily powerful stuff. So I only ever do about ten minutes a day, that’s it. And then I walk out in nature. But I reckon that being smart about it just working smarter, not harder, that’s the key. Alexia [00:46:48]: So you basically don’t want to break out into a sweat is what I’m hearing. Linda [00:46:52]: Look, no, that’s not true. That’s not true. But in an ideal world, if you are doing a fitness thing, if you’re not sleeping 6 hours a night, your baby is still waking up regularly for feeds and stuff, it’s not the time to be doing stuff that’s going to stress your adrenals. But if you’re a bit further down the track, if you’ve already built up your good Pelvic floor and deep core strength again and you can cope with intra abdominal pressure downwards, then by adding in intermittent exercise where for like 20 seconds on, you’re spiking your heart rate up and then you’re taking your heart rate right down. So you’re going sympathetic nervous system, parasympathetic nervous system sympathetic nervous system, parasympathetic nervous system so I’ve developed this thing called Half a hit. So it’s basically a 30 minutes blast class. And that’s what we do. We do cross patterning for the brain, lots of balance work, bring the heart rate right up with exercises and then drop it right down into deep stretches, slowing the breath and then going back up to breath where we’re activating deep core muscles and then down again. And it is good to do little short bursts of exercise as long as it’s followed with adrenal calming. Does that make sense? Alexia [00:48:11]: Yes. Linda [00:48:11]: So what I want to be doing is going for an hour run on the treill. That’s the worst thing you could do. Don’t do that. Alexia [00:48:18]: I’ve had some friends say that she started training for a marathon. I think she’s like early forties and she put on a ton of weight when she started training for the marathon. So that’s the kind of response that you’re talking about, which is that stress and the body’s like what the hell’s going on? I need to protect myself. Linda [00:48:34]: I’ve got a group of mums that I run with sometimes and it’s really interesting. The more the midlife ones are running, the more of a box their physical shape looks like, the more they’re losing their waist and the more weight they’re putting on actually, overall. And that’s the thing, understand that our hormones at this stage of our life is totally different. What worked when you’re in your twenties and thirties, the whole eating less calories in order to lose weight, that does not work. Now, if you’re not feeding those key hormones with good fats. We need a lot of good fats in order to create those hormones. We really need way more good fats in the diet. Like I said before, not fish and chips. We’re talking about avocados, your salmons, your olive oil is brilliant put on everything. If we’re not doing that satiating ourselves, then we’re going to be spiking insulin. And you might be in calorie deficit, but you’re going to put on weight as soon as you eat anything. Your body’s got to go. It’s a total rewiring. It’s a total paradigm shift on woman’s health and fitness. And it’s got to be, I believe it’s got to be an acceptance process. And yoga is called santosha. Santosha literally means sitting with what is now, like being in total acceptance of what is now. Not wishing for something else, not yearning for the past, not projecting into what you would like the future to be, but sitting at what is right now. And that acceptance that Santosha is the key ingredient to change. Because once you sit with this is the body, this is the brain, now what can I do to enhance the way my body wants to operate is naturally wanting to operate. And it’s not trying to be a little man. It’s not revering, revering your womanhood. Exactly. Alexia [00:50:37]: And all those things you’ve described, like, I’m going through this phase where the things that used to work don’t work anymore. And so I’ve started intermittent fasting, so really extending that fasting window as much as I can, doing those walks in nature. Dr. Mindy Pelts, I think she’s got a really good book out called Fast Like a Girl. She’s got a really great YouTube channel for anybody who wants to learn more about all of this, which is really great. But all these things that used to work for me just don’t work. And it’s taken a lot of me just going hang on a know, tracking everything a lot more closely and doing the calorie deficit, doing more exercise. I was like, hang on a minute. Normally this would like my weight would be dropping off right now, and it’s not. So yeah, I’ve been incorporating some of these things that you’ve been describing. It’s a suck it and see thing. You’ve got to kind of try that. Oh, that’s not working. Try that. Okay. And it’s this constant, pivoting, shifting learning, because what might work for somebody else isn’t necessarily going to work for me. So I’m now tracking everything like crazy and just learning. But I think that acceptance piece is really important because, yeah, it’s like, okay, I am not going to get back into those genes. They’re not even pre baby genes. I’m changing as a woman, and that’s okay. And accepting that rather than trying to be ten years behind me in my life, it’s like I have evolved, I’m different. That’s been an inner work piece, not a physical, not a diet, not running, whatever it is that’s been, okay, this is who I am. That’s, I think, a huge part of that process. Because when you can accept yourself for who you are, then you’re just happier with the way you are. So you’re not trying to do all this stuff. You can just think, okay, I’ve got a really busy time right now, and what I should do is go and go crazy and do the go go, but no, I’m not. I’m going to go for a walk in nature. Linda [00:52:19]: Which I am going to achieve, by the rule, on my to do list. But actually, I need this. And that’s where I’m getting my insights, my intuition, my shortcuts come in, my inspiration. For that, I’m very grateful. And yet it’s required a huge step change in how I manage my life. So, yeah, listening to you saying all this stuff, I can resonate it all resonates with me. And I’m definitely still on that learning journey. And I think I should start tracking some of this stuff sooner, actually. But that’s why I want to encourage listeners to really start familiarising themselves with their cycle sooner, making friends with their cycle. Not kind of thinking, oh my God, it’s my period. Oh, my God, just go like, I’m going to be out for a week now, just leave me alone. It’s accepting that this is an important part of your womanhood. Linda [00:53:04]: I heard this expression years ago and it just has stayed with me. “There is freedom in surrender.” Yes, that surrender. So in yoga, there’s a word called Ishvara pranidhana, which I love to say, and it literally means if we set where we want to go, roughly, we have this idea of how we want to feel in ourselves. And we make conscious choices to take ourselves along that path, knowing that sometimes the path might zigzag all over the place. But we’re making conscious choices and we’re doing daily practices, daily things that are going to help us move towards that vision that we have of ourselves. So it might be starting the day with hot water, doing five squats after we’ve been to the loo, trying to tune in to do a 15 minutes yoga nidra once a day, or in CBT, whatever it is. We’ve chosen our things, we’re doing our things, getting out into nature walking, but ultimately, it’s not with grasping onto a certain outcome, getting back into those skinny jeans or whatever it is, it’s not then I’ll be happy. It’s going with an open palm and kind of giving over to something that’s bigger than ourselves, something that is that collective consciousness, the co-creation with the universe, the Mother Nature, God, whatever you want to call. In yoga, we say the little self and the big self. Our connection with all that is in Ishvara pranidhana, is that ability, which I feel is so feminine, of giving over with an open hand grace, having the grace to not be holding and controlling everything. And that’s why it gets back to that being in control, of letting go, of being in control and control the controllables. Control what you choose to do for movement. Control the people that you choose to be around. If people are toxic and they make you feel exhausted, spend more time with people that bring, you know what you do when Baba does go down for sleep, do you actually need to do all the tidying up then? Do you need to necessarily do those emails right now? Do you need to be doing your website right now or could you go for the first 20 minutes? I’m going to go into a yoga nidra. I’m going to do a deep rest. It’s a paradigm shift and it’s huge because we have been conditioned from birth, most of us, that our busyness equals our worthiness, to take off that hat and consciously set it aside and sit with the fact that you essentially, as a woman, are enough, just as you are, and that you’re more than enough. And if you’ve just had a baby, you literally create a human being. You are perpetuating the human race. That’s more than enough. Alexia [00:56:10]: Is there anything more that needs to be said, Linda? I don’t know. I think you said it all. Linda [00:56:14]: Apart from the fact that I’ve got thebathroombootcamp.com which is free. And if you want to just get into little bits of exercise, little bits of movement, which can be very helpful for your posture and your pelvic floor, then grab that, because those exercises do work. I’ve got a nice guided meditation. It’s not a yoga nidra, it’s just a nice guided meditation for women who are postnatal and in that perimenopause phase, who just focused around the centre of our being, around the pelvis. And this is a nice way to relax. So if you like, I can send you the link to have a listen. Alexia [00:56:50]: And where can people find you, Linda, if they want to track you down and go, I love what she’s saying. I love her. Where is she? Where are you? Linda [00:56:57]: I’m all over the place. So I’ve got my umbrella website, which is lindastephens with a ph. lindastephenswellbeing.com. So there you can go through to I’ve got womenswellbeing.me, which is where I teach online. And I’ve got a huge plethora of information and interviews with health professionals and all of my different yoga classes and things in womenswellbeing.me. And I’ve also linked through to yogamums.net, which is for birth training and postnatal recovery courses and the like. I run retreats, wellbeing retreats and workshops. So most of the stuff is all linked through Linda Stevens well being. Alexia [00:57:37]: Wonderful. Well, you’re going to send me all the links, so I’m going to have all the links in

In today’s episode, I am ed by the incredible Susie Hamilton as she shares her spine-tingling story of transformation from someone who wrestled with tokophobia, the fear of pregnancy and birth, to becoming a surrogate. When Susie discovered this podcast when she was preparing for pregnancy, she went on to use my fear clearance method to clear her fears of pregnancy and birth. This led to an incredible transformation in her. Not only did she have two wonderful births of her own children, but she has since embarked on the surrogacy journey, and she is currently pregnant with her second surrogate baby. Susie’s story exemplifies the activation of inner power, self-advocacy, and the incredible impact that facing fears can have not only during childbirth but also in other aspects of life. As we delve into her experiences, we will explore the importance of feeling comfortable, making informed decisions, advocating for oneself, and embracing the journey with all its emotions. Overcoming Fear: Susie’s Transformation from Anxiety to Empowerment Pregnancy and childbirth can be daunting experiences, filled with fears and anxieties. But what if there was a way to transform that fear into empowerment? In this episode of the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast, Susie’s story is a testament to the power of overcoming fear and finding strength in vulnerability. Let us dive into Susie’s journey and explore the lessons we can learn from her transformation. Embracing the Fear: Susie’s journey starts with her ission of being terrified of pregnancy and childbirth. Like many expectant mothers, she found solace in the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. Through the fear clearance method that I openly share, Susie learned to confront and release her fears, allowing her to embark on a path of radical transformation. Activating Inner Power: Susie’s story highlights the activation of inner power and self-advocacy in the birth context. She shares her belief in fully experiencing the moment, embracing all emotions and adrenaline that come with it. While some may prefer to be fully clothed during birth, Susie felt comfortable being naked, emphasising the importance of feeling safe and secure during such a vulnerable time. The Journey into Surrogacy: Susie’s positive birth experiences inspired her to explore surrogacy, so that she could to capture the empowering feeling of pregnancy without bringing another baby home. Despite her initial uncertainties, Susie embraced the opportunity when she met the qualifications and embarked on her incredible journey as a surrogate parent. Self-Advocacy and Empowerment During Birth: One message that’s clear throughout this episode is the importance of advocating for yourself during labour and delivery. From questioning the necessity of certain medical procedures to choosing different positions for labour. Susie shares how she fearlessly asserted her right to make decisions about her own body and the birth. Her experiences are a useful reminder that assertiveness and comfort are essential for a positive birth experience. Building a ive Community: Susie’s transformation was not just personal; she also found strength and through the Fear Free Childbirth community and by starting her own Instagram . By connecting with others who shared similar fears, Susie was able to overcome feelings of guilt and ungratefulness for desiring a peaceful pregnancy and birth. The power of community and the ability to create lifelong connections through shared experiences can really help you on this journey to motherhood, no matter what that looks like for you. Susie’s tear-jerking story from fear to empowerment is a remarkable testament to the transformative power of embracing vulnerability and confronting your deepest fears. Resources mentioned during the episode During the episode, several resources were mentioned that helped the guest, Susie, overcome her fears and have a positive pregnancy and birth experience. These resources include: 1. Fear Free Childbirth Podcast: Susie found comfort and calmness by listening to the podcast during her second pregnancy and labor. 2. Online Research: Susie mentioned that she sought help by listening to podcasts and researching online resources to address her fears about pregnancy and childbirth. 3. Instagram Community: Susie started an Instagram as an outlet to connect with others who shared her fears. Through this community, she met lifelong friends who changed her view of pregnancy. 4. Chiropractic Care and Massage Therapy: To help with muscle tension, Susie sought physical release through chiropractic care and massage therapy. 5. Worldwide Surrogacy Specialists: Susie used in the US to match with intended parents during this current surrogacy journey. They work with intended parents all over the world! Click here to follow them on Instagram. These resources played a significant role in Susie’s journey of overcoming her fears and having a more positive pregnancy and birth experience. Episode Timestamps 00:00:01 Fearless transformation from fearful to fearless. 00:03:53 Marriage, miscarriages, fear, , empowerment, motherhood. 00:12:10 Peaceful, empowering birth experiences lead to surrogacy. 00:22:25 Becoming a surrogate: empowering, research, qualifications, anxiety 00:25:27 Anxiety during pregnancy, finding coping mechanisms. 00:32:58 Music helped during labor; instrumental was best. 00:37:54 Surrogate birth experience: empowering, healing, last one. 00:39:27 Grateful for birth experiences; overcoming fears. 00:43:56 Husband adjusts to wife’s need for space. 00:49:51 Advocate for yourself and be comfortable giving birth. 00:53:08 Children’s empathy and independence challenge parental authority. 00:57:27 Sharing anxieties, finding safe release, feeling ed. Episode Guest Meet Susie Hamilton, a remarkable individual who once feared pregnancy and childbirth but is now a mother of two and a two-time gestational surrogate. After facing pregnancy loss, she experienced anxiety surrounding pregnancy and birth, but her journey towards positive birthing experiences was challenging yet rewarding. She finds joy in sharing her newfound empowerment by assisting others in growing their families. You can connect with her on Instagram: @thebiggestask: An informative Instagram dedicated to all things surrogacy-related Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:01]: Hello and welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. My name is Alexa Leachman. Thank you so much for ing me today. Now, as you know, this show is all about removing the fear out of birth, and I’ve got a story to share with you today that is just going to blow your mind. Today I’m going to be ed by Susie Hamilton. And Susie was terrified of pregnancy and birth, and she discovered the podcast a long, long time ago when I first brought it out and dived into everything that I was sharing and used my book and the fear clearance method that I share to help her to get rid of her fears. And she was able to do that so well that not only did she go on to have two babies of her own, but now she is a surrogate and is on her second surrogate baby. I know, right? Like totally bonkers turnaround. When she first let me know that this was the transformation that she had gone through, I was just mind blown, just totally mind blown. I knew I needed to speak to her and find out more about it. And that’s what I want to share with you today. And it’s really just as an aside, when you think about approaching pregnancy and birth, and if you are full of fear or full of anxiety, then this really is an opportunity for you to face up to some fears and anxieties that potentially are holding you back in other areas of your life, too. And that if you jump in with your feet first, who knows what kind of transformation you could bring about into your life. It’s not just about the pregnancy and the birth. One thing that you’ll hear in listening to Susie’s story is how much she was able to activate her inner sense of power and her ability to advocate for herself and stand up for herself. And this is something I think that a lot of women struggle with, particularly in the context of the birth environment. So I’m just going to hand over to this conversation with Susie because it is truly inspirational to hear such a transformation from fearful to fearless and incredible. Alexia [00:02:36]: Now, the other thing is, before I hand over, is you might notice that both of us sound a little bit emotional when we’re talking, because we were. I mean, I was just kind of bowled over by her story, and it was very emotional for her sharing it again, because I don’t think Susie Head shared it in quite the way that we had shared it during our conversation. So it really is just a heartwarming and emotional conversation. So maybe get some tissues ready. OK, I’ll hand it over. Susie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I cannot wait to have this conversation with you. So welcome. Susie [00:03:08]: Thank you for having me. I’m very excited. Alexia [00:03:11]: We’re going to talk about your journey from fearful to surrogate, which is quite a journey, and I can’t wait to head all about it, but let’s just rewind and start at the beginning. And also I’d just like to know a little bit about you and who you are, so just tell us a little bit about who you are. Susie [00:03:27]: So I am a 28 year old mom of two and I’ve had one additional pregnancy after that where I was a surrogate, and I gave birth last year to a surrogate baby for a couple that lives in Belgium and I live in the United States. And I’m actually currently pregnant with my second surrogate baby. I’m ten weeks today. Alexia [00:03:50]: Okay, so let’s go back to the beginning of this journey. Susie [00:03:53]: I got married very young and I didn’t start out scared of pregnancy or childbirth, but we went through two miscarriages prior to my first child, so he is six now. I wasn’t really scared until the first miscarriage was kind of accidental about a year into our marriage. I mean, obviously we were sad, but we were like, okay, it just wasn’t the right time. And then my husband deployed and he came home and at this point we had been married for about two years and we were like, okay, we’re going to try to have a baby. This is going to be the most exciting thing we’ve ever done. I got my first positive pregnancy test and I was not excited. I was so scared. I was like, oh, my gosh, I could just lose this one too. Obviously my body hasn’t proven me worthy. All the other things that could come along with self doubt and panic and I ended up losing that pregnancy too, pretty quickly. We never made it to an ultrasound, so I felt guilty for being sad, but I was so afraid to start trying again. And my husband encouraged me. He was like, let’s not give up. We’re young at this point. We were 20. We’re young, we have time, there’s nothing to panic about. And we tried again. And the very next month after that miscarriage, I had another positive pregnancy test and I was like, I don’t know if I can do this. It just all felt like such a big weight. And I had the most outrageous anxiety his entire pregnancy and it really took away from what I felt like would have been a very joyful time. And so I had to start looking for help because I’m like, what if I don’t? In my head, I couldn’t even picture giving birth when they say, picture your future, holding your baby. You’ll be so happy. And I didn’t have any of those feelings. I was not joyful. I was terrified. Searched out some online information because this was 2016. And what do you do in 2016? It’s the year of looking everything up on the Internet, and I found you. So I started listening to your podcasts, and I pretty much listened to them religiously, even the ones that didn’t really pertain to me. I still was like, I just need to listen because other people are experiencing other forms of worry or fear engulfed with pregnancy alone. And then at that point, I wasn’t even thinking about birth, and I was unprepared, which is odd because my sister is huge into advocating for birth. That goes your way. So she was a Willha League leader, and so I had so much in of after birth, and she kept advocating for me to make the right birth choices, and I ended up getting diagnosed with polyhydramnios in my son’s pregnancy. So I had really high fluid levels. And so as a first time mom, I was 20 years old or 21 at the time. So I turned 21 when I was pregnant. At 21, I’m a first time mom. I’m terrified just of being pregnant in and of itself. And now they’re like, you need to be induced. So of course, I had to get over that fear because I had only ever heard of inductions going wrong. And to be quite frank, mine did not go perfectly, but I ended up with the birth that I had hoped for after using some of your head trash clearance and just trying to remind myself that as much as I was in control, I could not predict what was going to happen. So I had to kind of put myself in a headspace of, what can I control about this? And I was thankful that I was able to end up with a vaginal birth. I was induced. It took three days. I was induced on Wednesday, and he was born on Friday. At the end of the day, I got what I had hoped for, which was a vaginal birth. I ended up getting the epidural, which I was. And when I say, like, deathly afraid, I didn’t want to have them put something in my spine. I didn’t want to not feel in tune with my body. But I had the epidural because I was so tired. I got to day three, and this was like, midnight Friday morning, and I’m like, I can’t do this anymore. They had me on Pitocin. Of course. They had me on that to increase my contractions. And I had to listen to your podcast, and I listened to a little bit of, like, hypnobirthing as well while I was doing that because I’m like, I don’t want this epidural. I’m so scared. I looked over at the nurse, and I was like, just put me to sleep and cut him out. Like, I can’t do this. She looked at me and she’s like, you are going to push this baby out. I kind of toughened up. I was like, I’m going to get the epidural because it will help ease the physical pain that I’m in to help me clear this mental roadblock that I’m experiencing. So, of course, I had this beautiful baby boy. I was 21. My husband and I were just so excited to be parents. And there’s so many other things. Like, obviously my path in motherhood was difficult, but I felt so empowered after his birth, after feeling so terrified, just almost as though I could not physically get him out of me. And everyone kept saying, like, oh, you’re pregnant. He’ll come out one way or the other. But in my head, that did not exist. And so we were done having kids. And I was like, I’m never having a baby again. I was successful. I never have to do that again. Like, checkbox, I did it. And we did not we were like, we’re not having any more kids. He is perfect. He sleeps a majority of the time that he should be sleeping. Let’s just quit while we’re ahead. And then my son was about 18 months old. I don’t know what biological thing happened in me, but I was like I woke up one morning and I looked at my husband and I was like, we need to have another baby. And he was like, are you sure? Because I what happened last time, and I was just a ball of nerves the entire pregnancy. And I was like, we’re going to do this differently. I’m going to go into it with a better mind frame before I’m pregnant. So I was listening to a lot of your stuff again, but this time for more of the tokophobia side of it where I was clearing that worry just about being pregnant. And at this point, we weren’t even sure how quickly we were going to start trying or what our plan was. And my husband loves kids. He was like, let’s just go ahead. And now it’s like, now, why would now be a bad time? Took a couple of deep breaths about it. I wasn’t on any birth control after my son, but I was breastfeeding. I breastfed him until actually through part of my daughter’s pregnancy. So he was still breastfeeding. And I was like, oh, I just got my period back. It’ll take a long time. I have so much time to prepare. We got pregnant the first month, and I was like, I needed more time. She was ready to the world, and I was terrified of miscarriage. Now I have a baby to take care of and I’m still breastfeeding him. There was so much, but I definitely went into it after doing the head rash clearance and just it was like, something about your voice after having listened to it during a whole pregnancy and then in labour. And I was like, Alexia has got me. Like, I am so calm. Alexia [00:12:07]: Oh, my God. You get me all goosebumps. Susie [00:12:10]: And this was 20. Oh, man. She was born in 2019. Okay, so it was the end of 2018. I found out I was pregnant on here in the United States. It’s Black Friday, so it’s like the day after Thanksgiving, so it’s the end of November. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Okay, so I’m due in August of 2019, and my birthday is in August. So I was like, I’m going to look at this as, like, an early birthday gift. It’s going to be so different. I’m going to do this differently now. I found new care providers, so I knew that from my first pregnancy, I was with obstetricians only. And I said, this time I am going to be with midwives solely. I want as hands off, but I want to know my provider team intimately. And I found a hospital. That’s where we were living at the time. It was about a 40 to 45 minutes drive. Everyone kept trying to convince me not to do it because they’re like, that’s such a long drive. You’ve already had baby. Like, what if you have a baby on the side of the road? And I was like, no, I’m not putting that in my head. I need to focus on keeping myself as mentally healthy for this pregnancy. I’m doing things so much differently this time. And I will tell you what, that pregnancy was the most uneventful, peaceful experience of my life. I felt just total calm because I was able to kind of take in everything that you are preaching about not letting anxiety engulf you. It’s okay to seek help too, if you need it, right? So I was talking to my midwives every single appointment about what my fears were and what I was afraid of happening to me. The fact that they cared enough to sit and talk to me about my fears that had nothing to do with them. I told them I was like, I want an unmedicated birth. I want a spontaneous birth. All of these things that now I could dream about her being born. And I didn’t have that with my son. I was so terrified of his birth, and while it didn’t go perfectly, I didn’t feel traumatised. I could see some positive from his birth, but it helped me see what I didn’t want in the next one. So going from someone who was like one kid, I’m done. And now I’m so excited to have a second baby. And her pregnancy was, like I said, so uneventful. I went into labour the day before my due date. She took a while to come. We didn’t encourage her at all. It was just over 24 hours. I went into labour the day before my due date. She was born the evening of her due date. There was no worry about what was going to happen. I knew that my care team had my best interest, but they were never rushing me. They weren’t like, oh, you’ve been here for X amount of hours. And at that point, my water wasn’t ruptured. So they offered me, like, I think I was 5 CM dilated. And they were like, do you want to go home? Are you just stressed out here? It was almost like them saying that relieved whatever internal stress I wouldn’t let go of. So I put my headphones in. I’m listening to calming music, all of the things I had set in place to make me feel safe. And I transitioned so quickly. Within 30 minutes, I went through transition. And she was born like 2 hours after that first transition contraction, and it was a blur to me. It felt like ten minutes, no epidural. They had offered me gas, but I said no. I just wanted to feel I didn’t get to feel all those things. And when I tell you I looked at that woman, the nurse was sitting next to me, and I was like, I never have to do that again. I felt so calm. And they laid her up on my chest. And I had done all of these things to mentally prepare for her. And it was mostly thanks to you because between I did some hypnobirthing as well, I didn’t take a full class, but I was following a lot of the tracks. It’s like breathing. And you talk a lot about being able to have resources on hand, but you were one of them. It didn’t matter what episode. It was almost just like your voice became this calming entity for me. So I would put in, like, one of your podcasts. I’m like, okay, mom was done. And then she came out and I was like, wow, I never have to do that again. I’m done. We knew that we really didn’t want any more than two children, but she hit about a year old, and I was still breastfeeding her. I breastfed her until she was, like 16 months, which was less time than my son. I think my son breastfed close to two. He was like 21 months, something like that. But I was pregnant with my daughter, and I needed myself back while I was pregnant with my daughter because I wanted to feel calm. I looked at my husband after she was a year old, and I was like, I think I want to consider surrogacy. I think I feel a drive to be pregnant because her experience like her birth was so cathartic. It was very healing. Obviously, it didn’t take away the pain and the anxiety and the stress from my son’s birth and pregnancy, but it definitely provided some sort of reassurance that I was capable. It was like, all right, if that’s really what, you know, once I became a mom, I knew, I was like, if someone else can’t experience this, I want to be able to provide that to them. Surrogacy is different all over the world. So surrogacy in the UK is different from surrogacy in the United States. It is uncompensated in the United Kingdom. And so in the United States, you can be compensated for the pregnancy and the time that you’re spending pregnant. And that’s like a whole other can of worms. But when I went into this, I was like, I want to help a family grow. I was scared, but because I had a positive birth experience after a panic birth, no peace. And then a very peaceful experience being pregnant and then being able to enjoy all the movement. And I wasn’t afraid of going to the midwife, I wasn’t afraid of the doctor. I wasn’t afraid of them telling me that there was something wrong with my baby or me. And I was like, okay, I think I can do it. Maybe I’ll just try. If I don’t like it, if I get into it and I meet these people and I decide that this isn’t for me, I can change my mind. Before I’m pregnant, I had no worries. It was almost like it being someone else’s. Genetics helped me feel less afraid. It was like I knew my body was capable. Like I had given birth twice at this point. I did it. I jumped out first and I actually gave birth for two dads. So it’s a gay couple that lives in Belgium and they have a beautiful little boy now. His pregnancy was beautiful. I did the same thing. I had mostly mainly midwife care, but I was at a practice at that point because we moved that had obese on staff, so they were able to consult and I think that gave the dads a lot of peace too. One of them was a doctor, so he was very scientifically minded about everything. It was a good compromise. And the team that I was with, they have the lowest c section rate in Florida, which is where I live, if not like the southeast region of the United States. And I was like that because that was one of my fears. It’s like having a c section. I’m like, I hate feeling numb. And my epidural with my son didn’t work fully. I was like, I don’t want to be numb, so they’re going to have to put me to sleep for me to have this baby. If I ever need a c section, just all those things that could go wrong were going through my head with all pregnancies. But I took a headstrong approach when it came to being pregnant with someone else’s baby. I didn’t think I was going to have two kids of my own, let alone now. I’m on my fourth pregnancy, or hopefully will be my fourth live birth. My life has changed completely. I didn’t know tokophobia was a thing. I really didn’t even think I had it until I had experienced loss. But I was so terrified. I want to be able to tell everyone else that’s currently going through all of those fears. There is another side to that. You can get past it. Like right now I’m ten weeks pregnant. It’s for a heterosexual couple that lives in a different state in the United States and they’ve tried to get pregnant. They’re on their own for like twelve years. So this is their first ever positive pregnancy. And they have fears. And so I’m able to kind of help them walk through their fear. And even though they’re not doing the carrying themselves, there’s a lot of trauma and loss. For the most part that comes with surrogacy. No one chooses surrogacy as their first path to parenthood. And so they have to give up a lot of those fears and worries to be able to even allow someone else to carry their child. So I feel incredibly honoured. But that’s my story. Sorry it was long. Alexia [00:21:51]: No, I know. It’s an amazing story. I’m just totally in awe and I just can’t believe what a journey that’s been from somebody that’s terrified to now having babies for others. Part of me is like, how does that thought drop into your head? Like, oh yeah, let’s just start having babies for the people. I just find that mind blowing and incredible. And what a leap. Generosity. I don’t know. There’s so many. Do you know where that came from? Is that were you thinking about for ages? I mean, that’s quite a leap, isn’t it? Susie [00:22:25]: I think part of it was. I knew that being a parent again, having a third child felt like not in my ball field, but I knew that pregnancy felt really empowering with my second. So I was like, what if I can capture that feeling without having to bring another baby home? And so at first it was kind of just like a ing thought where I was like, honey, talking to my husband, what do you think? Is this crazy? Am I just like, losing my mind? And he was like, let’s do research about it. And obviously we did extensive research onto the legal side. What were the emotional ramifications and what was the whole process? And there is a lot of guidelines in the United States that know you have to have healthy pregnancies and births prior to being even eligible to become a surrogate. At least in the United States. There’s the American Society of Reproductive now, they give very detailed guidelines of who can be a surrogate, what are the qualifications, what kind of complications in a previous pregnancy would exclude you from being able to be a surrogate? So even for me, I was like, I might not even qualify, so let’s just see what happens. And if I qualify, if the universe allows this to happen, I’m going to embrace it. I did. And everything fell into place that I said, okay, everything’s working out. And then there’s a hurdle of, will I even get pregnant? So it uses IVF. I had a lot of anxiety going into having to give myself shots daily. There’s a lot of head trash clearance that had to go on with that, too, because I’m like, I don’t like getting shots that other people give me. How can I give myself an injection every single day for like twelve weeks? It was a little terrifying, I think, the idea that I had to do all of these things. But I’m like I’m super powerful. I was empowered. I left my second pregnancy feeling more positive than negative about birth and pregnancy. So I just decided that I was ready and I did it. And I had a baby and I gave birth to him unmedicated. He came shockingly on his due date. I’ve had two due date babies. Alexia [00:24:51]: Oh my God. Susie [00:24:52]: The second one. So my surrogate that I had, he was born on his due date, but he was only like 22 minutes into his due date, so we could have had a 39 week and six day birth, but he held out for 22 minutes after midnight to come on his due date. We’ll see if I can do it a third time. Alexia [00:25:10]: Amazing. So let’s talk about the head trash clearance pieces. So for those that don’t know, head trash clearance is the method that I developed to get him rid of fear. So you mentioned that you’ve used it a little bit throughout all of your pregnancy experiences. So talk me through the first time that you decided to try it out and what you were using it for. Susie [00:25:27]: Well, I didn’t feel like an expert the first time. The first time was my son. And so I was like, yeah, I’m on your website, I’m listening to your podcast. I’m trying to go through you had some free resources, and I’m trying to go through everything as much as I could because I was paranoid that I just wasn’t capable of doing all of these things. And you kind of touch on basically putting yourself and I think you talked about categorising what my fears were like, really talking about what the fears were. Not just like, oh, I’m anxious, but being very specific about what my anxiety was for and being able to focus on those things and control talk about what I could control for some of those things. But I felt like confused, really, in the beginning because I didn’t know how to use what you were preaching, like how to implement it into myself. And so just listening to you repeat those things, talk about what I could do to not control, I feel like that’s not really the right word, but what I could do to impact my situation, I guess because you don’t have control, you have to release some of that. Like, what am I capable of doing right now to help my fear? And my fear was and I would have to name them. So my fear was being induced. And then that happened, and I was like, all right, I have an arsenal of things to calm. And whether that was like listening to calming music or even just expressing those fears to my husband, because I kept a lot of it bottled up, but if you just keep it all in, it doesn’t go away. It just sits there and it festers and it grows. And I was like, I need this to go away. But I was afraid to talk about it with my friends, who at that point, really a lot of my friends weren’t having children. And so I couldn’t really express my anxiety out loud. So I did take to the internet as well. One other thing that I did that was really helpful was I started an Instagram that was separate from my own Instagram. And I kind of used this as part of my head trash clearance, like an outlet was to be able to share the anxiety. And there’s a whole community on Instagram of women out there who are terrified or whether that be like trying to conceive or you’re pregnant and now you’re fearful of that pregnancy. They’re everywhere and they’re from all over the world. And I met lifelong friends on Instagram now and it changed my whole view of what pregnancy can be like. When I take away what is happening in here, there’s a lot of things that happen that you don’t want to feel judged for feeling these things too. And that was like my biggest fear was that if I started talking about it that people were going to tell me, like, oh, you’re being ungrateful. Then this was like a whole other aspect to my anxiety was I should be so happy that I’m pregnant and there’s women out there who would give anything in the world to be pregnant. All of those feelings had to be sorted through in order to have a peaceful pregnancy and birth. And to be quite honest, my first one wasn’t peaceful. Some people say like, oh, once you feel them move, you’ll start to feel differently. And I didn’t, I didn’t feel that way. So it took a lot of really going through compartmentalising what my fears were and talking about them and not letting them just sit and fester. Another thing was like physical release. And I’m not sure if you really talk about that, but I would see a chiropractor and massage therapist to help the muscle tension that I was developing during the pregnancy. That helped a little bit too, obviously. I don’t know if that was the thing that really helped, but I feel like it was a part of my healing process. It was like I feel like my anxiety manifested a lot in muscle tension and. I felt so achy in my first pregnancy and then being able to have some emotional clearance with my second pregnancy, I felt healthier, almost. Yeah. Alexia [00:29:58]: There’s a lot of tension in the body. The fear. It’s tightness. It’s very heavy. Susie [00:30:02]: Yes. And I think that it made my first labour longer. I mean, it was an induction, so I obviously have to say I was a first time mom. Being induced, the odds that it wasn’t going to be an immediate thing was very high. I do feel like the more peace that I had in subsequent pregnancies and births, I had faster labours. I had labours that I felt more in control of and not control in the sense of, like, I get to decide what happens, but that I knew that whatever happened, I had done everything in my power to be prepared for all of the possible outcomes and not be fearful of those outcomes. Because if I was meant to have a C section to give birth to my children, then that’s it. That’s how it’s supposed to be. But I was going to set myself up for feeling peace and calm. I had never had surgery other than like I had oral surgery when I was a teenager, but terrified of surgery. You obviously have to overcome that fear of I might have to have surgery to have a baby. That’s a huge commitment. You don’t just wake up the next morning feeling fine. And after my surrogacy, I ended up needing my gallbladder be removed when I was, like, five weeks postpartum. So while I didn’t have a C section to give birth to him, I did end up having to have surgery after he was born. Even that was difficult, and that didn’t even touch what a C section goes through. So I was grateful for that. My experience didn’t include a C section, but I was mentally prepared for in my head what the scariest possible outcome could be. And I don’t know how I would have ever done it without having your voice in my head all the time, whether that be about anxiety. And I listen to a lot of the podcasts where you are interviewing other people, particularly, I think there was one that I listened to that you were speaking to a researcher, and she was, like, talking about her pregnancy. And I really like that one because I was like, okay, so even researchers who are literally into psychology can still be scared. I feel better. I feel much better. Alexia [00:32:18]: The emotions, we’re all human. Even though I work with this stuff all the time and I use head trash prints myself all the time, it doesn’t stop those human emotions rolling in. It doesn’t kind of make us immune. And yeah, that story with her is just brilliant because she intellectually knows about all this stuff and yet the human part bit that the woman still feels all that to focus your mind on. Because that’s another thing, I think when you’re going through pregnancy, release birth, is to give your mind something to focus on so that you can keep focused on not what’s going on in your body. Potentially. Really good distraction, isn’t it? Just to give a kind of a mental focus. Susie [00:32:58]: Music really helped, definitely while I was in active labour and music without words, I found was the best thing for me. So just like instrumental, acoustic, even like manipulated music, like anything that didn’t really sound like real instruments, but it was something about just having tunes and I could kind of tune out. I could focus on the music and tune out the sounds of the hospital room. I’ve always given birth in a hospital despite having midwives. It’s very clinical. Obviously, you’re in a hospital and you feel like you’re sick. That was not peaceful. But I was able to really put into myself about focusing on what I could control. And that was like, the way I was breathing, working through each contraction, because I feel like that’s a whole other hurdle into birth, is like, well, I’m scared of pain. I don’t think the pain was the scariest part of birth for me. It was almost just like the outcome that could happen. Obviously I want my child to be healthy, but I want to feel like I was safe. And I think knowing that I was in the right place, I had the right person. My husband has been in all of my births. He’s a professional birth partner now. After this many births, I think to him it’s like second nature. He’s just like, do you want me to push on your hips? And I’m like, he would know that I need things before I can even vocalise them. And he’s like, Why don’t you roll over? You look stressed out. And I found that I also don’t like to give birth laying down. I much prefer to do it in a reclined throne position that was much more empowering as well, because now I wasn’t on my back, and I felt like I had, I could focus on what could I control, and I could control the way I was sitting. And I know it’s not the same way for most, or not for a lot of people in the United States, at least, you don’t get to. I mean, there’s some doctors who will say, like, I don’t allow all my patients to give birth in any other position than laying down, which feel like is just a control thing, because at this point, I’ve had two of my three births sitting upright in a hospital bed. Like, they took off the end of the bed, and I gave birth sitting up. And I felt like I was able to be more present as well when it came to what position I was in. And some people really enjoy on all fours. I don’t like that. That felt like a very vulnerable position to me. So I did not like, I tried to do it when I was ready to push and I was like, no, I don’t like that because it made me feel vulnerable. And I don’t want to feel vulnerable while I’m already naked. Alexia [00:35:45]: Didn’t you? You were like a queen on your throne. Susie [00:35:48]: That’s exactly how it felt. I had a little bit of privacy even though I was completely naked. That was how it felt. More private. And another thing, and I forgot to mention this in my first birth, another thing that really helped me feel focus on the outcome for birth was having a mirror to watch him come out. I thought it would scare me because they offered it to me and I was like, I think I do want to see it. I think I need to know that I’m making progress. I was able to focus on seeing him come out. That was amazing that they offered me the mirror. And every single birth since then, I have had a mirror. And I have felt like that has made a huge difference too, because I’m like, instead of them coaching me and saying like, well, you’re doing so great, he’s almost there. I can see their head and their hair and I’m able to reach down and touch them and feel like thinking. Alexia [00:36:44]: About birth, like reliving obviously you’re reliving your birth now. And they are just so powerful, these experiences. They just bring it all back and obviously, I don’t know. Do you get to talk about your birth much? Susie [00:36:55]: Is this because maybe I don’t really talk about it a lot. I feel like I advocate for my friends who might be afraid and I’ve shared my birth experience with some of my closest friends. Yes, sharing it is very helpful. It feels helpful to me to talk about the things that scared me and reliving some of the hardest parts of it sometimes doesn’t feel good. I really do feel like being able to share the positivity. And that’s why when most people are like, my gosh, you’re a surrogate, number one, I hear, oh, I’ve never met somebody who’s been a surrogate. It’s a little wild, a little wild to me because there’s like, I think somewhere between 1500 to 3000 surrogates give birth every year. And so it’s not a huge number, but it’s significant enough. Alexia [00:37:52]: Is that just in the US? Susie [00:37:54]: It might be globally, but I feel like maybe it’s 1500 in the United States and maybe another 1500 elsewhere. I could be wrong on that. Don’t quote me. But I do know that it’s a very small number in the grand scheme of all the people who give birth every year, there’s a lot that goes into there’s a uniqueness obviously you’re giving birth and it’s not your baby, so there’s hurdles to overcome with that. But being able to talk about my birth experience with my surrogate baby, that was the most empowering thing I’ve ever done. I got to hold him. They put him up on my chest, and that was something that me and the intended parents agreed upon before his birth, that they wanted to lead cord Clamping so he stayed on me. That was very healing, because it was like I got to kind of see the work that I had done and get to tell him how proud of him that I was. Because I also feel like talking to the baby. Even my own children. I talked to all of them as soon as they came out. I told my son. I was like, Hi, I’m your mom. And then when my daughter, I looked at her and I was like, you did it. And then I immediately said, I’d never have to do that again. Jokes on me, I continue to do it. And I do have a feeling that this is going to be my last pregnancy, and not in a bad way. Alexia [00:39:24]: I don’t believe you. Susie [00:39:27]: My husband’s supposed to. He’s like, maybe you don’t say any definite, you don’t know. Maybe I’m ready to move on from being in the pregnancy and birth part of my life, the fact that I’ve been able to do it. And number one, I’m grateful that I survived because there are people who do not survive pregnancy. And that was a huge fear. Even though it could have been irrational, it was still very, very real in my head. With my first pregnancy, I had no reason to believe that I wouldn’t. But somehow it was something to overcome. And I do feel like all of my births so far have taught me something. Each one has taught me something different. And number one, I know that I love giving birth without medication, being able to feel all of the feelings. And I felt more in tune with my body. And some people are like, you’re crazy. I would never give birth without an epidural. And I feel like that’s such a personal choice. And I’m so grateful that I’m able to find teams, multiple teams of people who are willing to help me have the birth that I can envision, because being able to envision a birth felt impossible years ago. And I’m finally at a place I can look forward to birth. I’m almost, like, eager to do it again. And I never thought that would be a fact of my life. Obviously, there’s fears. There’s still fears. I think even now, as a person who’s given birth three times, I still have fears coming up. And I’m ten weeks pregnant, so I’ve got 30 more weeks, give or take. I have to make all 30 weeks and then I still have to get through the birth and anything happened, but I’m not going to let my fears control the outcome for me. I can focus on what I can do and what I can control. I’m actually giving birth with the same group that I gave birth to my daughter with. We moved back to where we were. So I’m hopeful that I’ll have a very similar experience to her birth. They let me eat during my pregnancy. That was, like, huge. I didn’t get that my first birth or not pregnancy birth. My first with my son, I was induced. They refused food, and basically I just had sips of water. And then with my daughter, they encouraged me to eat. So I think that that helped too. I was able to fuel myself to get through 24 hours of labour with her. Granted, transition was very fast. The funniest part about my third birth is that when I think I was like I think they checked my cervix and I was like, 6 CM. They’re like, oh, you’re doing great. I walked in labour. So they were kind of like, oh, this is their third time. This will be an easy one. And I went and I went into the room, and they checked and they were like, okay, you’re about 6 went. And I sat on the toilet, and I found that the toilet is my favourite place to labour. I looked at you got to call the nurse right now. Can I have this baby on the toilet? Nurse comes in. She’s like, you were just 6 CM. There’s no way. She was like, we need to go get the midwife. This happened really quickly. His transition was so much faster, but it was a lot more peaceful. But there’s different feelings that come with astrogacy as well, because you’re having to think about the parents. And I head the parents in the room with me. I wanted them to be able to experience everything. With me, it’s their child’s birth, just as if it would be my husband’s birth as much as it was mine. And so having then I was thinking about, like, am I being too noisy? Am I scaring them with like they were both men, so they’ve never I don’t think other than the doctor, he had gone through some OB rounds when he was in medical school. He was like, I’ve never just sat in on a birth. So this is a little intimidating. One of the most amazing parts of it was having everyone be able to experience it, and they were scared. There was, I think, a few moments where I think they could have used some anxiety reducing it was just beautiful and amazing. Alexia [00:43:54]: Your husband in that as well? Susie [00:43:56]: Yes. My husband was like, I’ll just stand back here. I don’t really like to be touched. I found that out. Don’t really like people to touch me. I want to feel control of the situation. And it’s not comforting to have people, like, touching my arms or my legs. And so my husband knows now he’s like, I just leave her alone. I talk to her. And then if she wants me to help her, I will offer my help because during my daughter’s birth, he tried to be really like, oh, I’ll rub your shoulders. And I was on the I think it’s called the cub. It’s like a birth stool almost, but it’s inflatable. I did not like that. Everyone was like, raving. They’re like, this thing’s amazing, this birth stool. I did not feel comfortable. And I leaned over and I touched my husband’s knees to kind of be into the contractions. And I was like, oh, your legs are so hairy. I just don’t want to be near you anymore. And my husband felt so bad. It was a fact of life. It was like I was going through something and I was figuring out in the moment, like, what made me comfortable and what didn’t. And I was not apologetic about any of the things. I was like, I don’t like that, being able to control all these things and say, like, nope, I don’t like that. Yes, I like that. And no one argued with me, but if they did, there was a couple of times when a nurse would less at me about taking my gown off because I don’t like to labour in clothes. I navigated all of these things, but having my person so my husband was there also advocating for the things that I wanted and that I didn’t want. They kept saying, like, oh, you need to put some clothes on. You need to put a gown on or something. I’m like, no, if you don’t want to see me, feel free to leave the room. He would advocate for me, too. He was like, no, she’s more comfortable in a different position, or she would rather be sitting on the birth ball than on the know. And they’re like, we need to check your cervix. And I do feel like this is a very United States thing. We need to do this. And I’m like, do you need to or do you want to? So I do very minimal cervical checks because I realise they’re painful and I don’t enjoy them and they don’t tell me anything. I learned that I could trust my physical instincts. I never thought that I would feel this way about birth or pregnancy in and of itself. Pregnancy can be really hard. No one really talks about the hard stuff because they want it to look like it’s this beautiful, magical thing. And then those of us who don’t feel the beautiful, magical thing the whole time are like, am I doing it wrong or am I not? That’s just not the case. Alexia [00:46:52]: I think it goes without saying. I’m going to ask you anyway, what have you learned about yourself? I imagine that you’ve learned a lot about yourself going through all of this. Susie [00:47:00]: I am way stronger at advocating for what makes me feel good. And I feel like it makes me a better advocate for other people too, for my children. And I think my husband is a better advocate for other people too, because now he’s kind of found his voice in pushing back against the typical behaviours surrounding pregnancy and birth. But he also has, I think, unique insight to helping someone go through the fears that come with being pregnant. And I think he secretly had some fears too, that he was afraid to talk about. With our first, he felt kind of indifferent about the whole thing, but then he was more vocal with my daughter’s pregnancy and he was like, we’re doing this together. And I know not everyone has a ive partner like this. And so I don’t want this to make it seem like this was the only way I did it, but having somebody, anybody, whether that was like my husband or my sister or my mom or a best friend or whoever. Just having someone to share the fears with and not feeling like you are completely isolated in this bubble of shame or sadness for feeling not joy. Because it allowed me to feel more joy. Because I could share those things and say I’m terrified. I don’t see this going in some beautiful sunshine enveloped way. And so sharing my fears with somebody else and then him being able to share some of his fears back, I think we learned a lot about each other. I think that’s helpful. But I’m not afraid to speak up anymore. I didn’t want to cause a ruckus or hurt anybody’s feelings, but I’m like, this is my birth. This is my child’s birth. And then obviously with surrogacy, this is my birth, but this is someone else’s birth too. And I want to make this an experience that is positive for all of us. And I don’t know, I just look forward to giving birth again. I didn’t think that was possible. Alexia [00:49:21]: You are a total badass. I have to say. You’ve kind of found your voice. You’ve found your power. You’re clear on what you want, and you will stand up for yourself and ask for it without coming across some faulty bitch like some people like, oh, my God, she’s just so whatever language people might have about women that are being assertive and asking for what they want. You’ve got such a gentle way with you, but I can imagine that you’re like you don’t take any crap, and you’re like and you get what you want. Is that fair to say? Susie [00:49:51]: Yeah. I feel like being in the moment, like all of the emotions and the adrenaline because I totally believe that adrenaline plays a huge part in birth. For me, as soon as it kicks in, I’m not afraid to say, I’m taking all my clothes off. I’m sorry if someone else is uncomfortable, but I’m going to do what’s going to make me feel the most comfortable right now, and that’s to be naked. And for some people, it’s going to be completely clothed and they’re going to wear a whole gown, maybe like a bra. And during my surrogacy birth, I did wear a bra just for comfortability. For me, I was surrogate by a bunch of men in labour. So not that any of them cared, and obviously they were looking at my vagina. So I feel like it’s all about mitigating, whatever makes you feel comfortable. And for me, I love having a mirror. I want to be naked, I want to labour in whatever position I want, and I want to give birth sitting upright. Those are my very few and far between things, and no one’s going to take them away from me. But without learning that I head control and let even if someone pushes back, at the end of the day, I can do what makes me feel safe. And making myself feel safe has always been my top priority. And I don’t think anyone would argue with me anymore about giving birth. I feel like as a first time mom, a lot of people are afraid to be assertive because they don’t want to make waves. And the one thing I wish that I would have known in my first birth, and I don’t know if it’s like a rite of age where you just have to learn that you can advocate for yourself. But I felt like they wanted to check my cervix all the time, and it was so painful, and I just let them kept doing it. And I learned better. I learned that I could say no or not right now, or just ask them, Why? What are you going to get out of it? And I never knew that I had that power. Definitely empowering myself to speak up was one way that I helped further labours and births. No one can tell me that I’m not going to do something to be comfortable in birth anymore. Alexia [00:52:07]: Has that expanded to other aspects of your life? You’ve found this power now, and I imagine yeah. Okay, so tell me, how is this showing up elsewhere? Susie [00:52:16]: I mean, I deal with anxiety on a regular basis, like with other stuff, because I have two kids and I’m trying to raise them to be nice people, like good human beings. How do you teach your three and a half year old to advocate for herself? I’ll tell you what, we’ve done a pretty good job because we have this one thing that we talk about in our house a lot is like, I’m the boss of my body. We try to empower our kids that we don’t make fun or we don’t talk about other people’s bodies, the way that they look or the way that they act. That’s not kind. My son and my daughter both experienced bullying already. And there was a situation where my son, he’s a bigger boy, like, my husband is six foot one. I don’t know what that translates. I think it was like 71 CM something, I don’t know. Alexia [00:53:05]: Six foot one, that’s good for me. Yeah, that’s tall. Susie [00:53:08]: He’s a very tall man. And I’m a foot shorter than my husband. So our children are my daughter is very petite and little, and our son is a bulkier kid, but he’s been made fun of and he’s an empath all the way. Like our first child came out. He feels everything. He’s so emotionally in tune with himself. If he sees someone being sad, he’s sad with them. And my daughter’s not that way. She’s definitely not empathetic, but she is just sharp. Someone said something to her about her clothes, like, oh, I feel like your shirt is dirty. And she looked and she’s like, I’m having fun and I’m the boss of my body, so if I want to wear a dirty shirt, I’m going to wear what? But now we are kind of regretting not regretting, but sometimes it gets us because we’ll say, hey, it’s time to go take a bath. You’re a little dirty. And she’s like, the boss of my body, I don’t have to go do that. And I’m like, well, you don’t have to. I would recommend that you go take a bath because you’re kind of dirty. And she always agrees. But I do feel like we are more empowering to our kids and teaching them that no one is allowed to speak to them. Sometimes they call us out even. They’re like, mom, my son will say, mom, you’re being kind of rude. And I sometimes have to take a step back and I’m like, Am I bossing him around? There’s a difference between telling your child something to keep them safe or telling them something that’s in their best interest or telling your child to do something because you want it done and you want it done right now. There’s like, a very fine line of teaching independence and empowering them to speak up and be vocal about what’s important to them versus do you want a child who’s going to question your authority? But I totally believe that I want my kids to grow up to question authority figures because not everyone is in charge of you. Alexia [00:55:13]: Well, Susie, I feel like we could talk all day. You’ve got so much experience, just so much to share, and it’s just been wonderful to hear this journey that you’ve made from fearful possibly tokophobia to now just I still think it’s a bit mind blowing, I have to be honest. Susie [00:55:29]: But just incredible. Alexia [00:55:30]: Just incredible. If there’s anybody that wants to you’ve mentioned an Instagram . Can people come in? Are you still running that Instagram? Susie [00:55:37]: Yeah, I still use that Instagram . I’m not as active. I use it to follow other people now on their journey. But I do post about my surrogate here and there. It’s Dear so Dear Baby underscore h. And it was originally when I was going through Dear Baby Hamilton to my child, but now it’s kind of moved on to know all sorts of anxiety over trying to conceive and could a miscarriage happen and all those things. And I shared it with some of my close friends recently and they were like, oh my gosh, you documented everything from every pregnancy test to all of it. And I’m like, yeah, I had nowhere else to share those things. The community is huge on Instagram trying to conceive. Now it kind of moved into surrogacy for me. So I know that Instagram can be a little triggering to some people because I’m actively talking about pregnancy a lot. But it’s just one of those things that I used it to be an anonymous release. I didn’t share my face for the first six months or something on there. And it wasn’t until we had a positive pregnancy and blood work was showing that he was growing that I shared my face because I just wanted it to be this anonymous sharing ground. And it really was. It was amazing. Alexia [00:57:03]: Just to summarise then, in of what really helped you throughout your pregnancy, then just to recap, it sounds like you did some hypnobirthing. Obviously, there’s some podcast listening going in there. You did some head trash clearance, you went to the Physio. Was it physio? The osteopath, was it? Yeah. Susie [00:57:18]: So I did like chiropractic care and massage and I feel like that was very helpful. Alexia [00:57:23]: Is there anything else that you did that was really helpful for you, though? Susie [00:57:27]: Really? I feel like the biggest thing was being able to talk about finding one person, even if they never talk back to you, if they never give you any , but being able to share it and know that it’s going to a safe place. So whether that be online or to a friend or a family member or your spouse or your co parent, whoever it is, being able to talk about it and just let that information release and not feel an obligation for them to provide you safety or guidance back, they can just soak it in for you. And I don’t think that someone should take on all of your anxiety and stress, but being able to freely share and say, I’m scared of this, whether that be what the next doctor’s appointment is going to hold, are they going to find something on an ultrasound, am I going to have to have an epidural? Like, am I going to be induced, am I all those things? I shared all of those things with Instagram community and I shared them with my husband and I was able to. It was almost like letting them out felt good. So I do recommend finding someone or something as an outlet, even if you’re completely anonymous. I didn’t feel alone anymore because I was able to keep letting those things out and not just having them stuck up here alone like festering in my own thoughts. Oh, that’s wonderful. Alexia [00:58:56]: Thank you so much Susie, for sharing your story. It’s just been wonderful to listen.

Fear of Vomit and Pregnancy: How to Navigate the Emetophobia in Preparation for Pregnancy and Parenthood Today I am diving into a topic that affects more people than you might imagine – the fear of vomit and pregnancy. The fear of being sick is also known as emetophobia and while it may not be the number one fear for everyone, it ranks high on the list of most common phobias. During this episode I explore the seriousness of this fear, and its impact on those contemplating pregnancy or dealing with a fear of pregnancy or giving birth. I’ll also be sharing insights and strategies to help you overcome this fear and create a fearless mindset. Emetophobia is the fear of vomiting or being sick, and it can have a profound impact on pregnancy. A fear of vomit or a fear of being sick is particularly tricky when coupled with the challenges of morning sickness or for those who suffer with tokophobia, the fear of pregnancy or giving birth. When your phobias start to stack on top of each other, things can quickly feel overwhelming. Emetophobia: Understanding the Fear of Vomit or Being Sick Emetophobia is no ordinary dislike of throwing up. It’s a deep-seated fear that can elicit intense anxiety and panic at the mere thought of vomiting or being around others who might. This fear often extends to situations where illness is a possibility, leading to a complex web of anxieties. From discomfort to phobia: How it develops The roots of emetophobia can often be traced back to personal experiences or traumas involving vomiting. It might be a childhood memory of a stomach bug or witnessing someone fall ill. Over time, these experiences become etched in the mind, linking vomiting with extreme fear and distress. As the fear solidifies, it begins to infiltrate various aspects of life. People with emetophobia might become hypervigilant about potential sources of illness, meticulously avoiding situations where vomiting could occur. This avoidance, though initially a coping mechanism, eventually reinforces the fear, turning it into a phobia that exerts significant control over one’s daily life. How I developed my fear of vomit I developed this phobia as a result of my baby being sick on a car journey. My partner was working away when my youngest was around 9 months, so one weekend we went to visit him. It was a really long drive and we were stuck in really bad January traffic. It was raining really badly and I was stuck in roadworks on the M25 in the UK (affectionately called the Road to Hell by Chris Rea in his famous song). My baby used to do this thing where she would sometime bring up her milk about half an hour after feeding and I was conscious of this as I was driving soon after we had stopped for a feed. Then she started being sick! And, I was stuck in the front seat driving and couldn’t do anything about it. Because we were in roadworks I couldn’t pull over. I just had to sit there listening to her vomit all over the back of the car. It was horrid! From then on, I would be super stressed on any journey longer than half an hour as I would anticipate the inevitable. When baby #2 turned up this continued and it was a total nightmare to deal with. But I didn’t realise at first that was was going on was a fear of vomit as I’d never had that before. Fear of Vomit and Pregnancy: Morning Sickness Now, imagine emetophobia and pregnancy. Now, we find a convergence of fears, where the potential for vomiting during morning sickness becomes a daunting prospect for those already grappling with emetophobia. Morning sickness, although a normal part of many pregnancies, triggers a sense of dread for individuals with emetophobia. The anticipation of nausea or vomiting during this period amplifies their existing anxiety, creating a challenging mental and emotional landscape to navigate. Emetophobia meets Tokophobia When we add tokophobia to the mix too, things can quickly start to escalate emotionally. The anxiety that comes from suffering from these phobias individually is significant, but put them together and it can feel like a total nightmare. When a fear of vomit or being sick and tokophobia are present together, the prospect of pregnancy can take on a new level of fear as the fear of vomit dominates. This can feel incredibly overwhelming and some people just don’t know where to turn. How I overcame my fear of vomit My situation with my kids being sick in the car came to head once when I was heading away on holiday with my kids ( and my aunt. My kids were 10 month old and 5 years at the time, so well into the vomiting age. We had a long 7 hour drive ahead of us and I was in a bit of a state. It was a 7-hour drive because i wanted to stop every hour or so to let the kids have fresh air so that they wouldn’t be sick. For the return journey my aunt – who is a very wise lady – told me that their vomiting was in response to my fear of them vomiting. I was gobsmacked. This made NO SENSE to me! How could my anxiety around this make them sick? She insisted that I worked on clearing this before getting in the car and starting our return journey home. So that’s what I did. I found a quiet spot and used Head Trash Clearance to clear my fear of vomit and my kids being sick in the car. It took me about 20 minutes. Then we set off on our long 7-hour drive home. Well, this drive was like NO OTHER! Both kids feel asleep at the start of the journey and DID NOT WAKE UP. We didn’t even want to stop the car for a pee in case they woke up. So we ended up not having a break on what actually turned out being a 5-hour drive (once you don’t stop every hour!). Ever since that day, my kids were never sick in the car. Them being sick was all me! Coping with a Fear of Vomit and Pregnancy While the intersection of emetophobia and pregnancy may seem overwhelming, there are steps you can take to manage this fear: 1. Knowledge as Empowerment Educate yourself about the physiological reasons behind morning sickness. Understanding that it’s often a sign of a healthy pregnancy can help reframe the fear. You might also want to check out my podcast that touches on this. In that episode my guest explains a surprising reason behind morning sickness, and what you can do to resolve it. I when I published this episode, I received a lot of emails from people telling me they followed her advice and it worked: their morning sickness went away! 2. Seeking Professional Help Consulting with a mental health professional who specialises in anxiety disorders can provide tailored strategies for managing emetophobia. Cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) and exposure therapy are common approaches that can gradually reduce the fear’s intensity. I can work with you on this using Head Trash Clearance (or one of the peeps I’ve trained in Fearless Birthing Or Head Trash Clearance) 3. Building a System Communicate your fears with your healthcare provider and loved ones. Having an empathetic network can alleviate feelings of isolation and provide a safety net during challenging moments. 4. Mindfulness and Self-Care Engage in mindfulness techniques and self-care practices to manage anxiety. Techniques such as deep breathing, meditation, and relaxation exercises can be powerful tools in reducing the fear’s grip. 5. Clear the fear yourself Use Head Trash Clearance to clear your fear. This is what I did and I was able to clear my fear in around 20 minutes. You can do this using the instructions I provide in my books Fearless Birthing and Clear Your Head Trash. Or you can use a fear clearance track. I’ve created a fear clearance track for this to help you. Head over to to the Shop to check it out. Emetophobia: Embracing Resilience As you navigate the intricate path of pregnancy while contending with emetophobia, that your feelings are valid. Acknowledging your fears is an act of strength, and seeking help is a proactive step toward managing them. With time, patience, and the right strategies, you can gradually reclaim a sense of control over your fears. Emetophobia might be a formidable opponent, but with the right tools and , you can embrace motherhood with courage and confidence, even in the face of morning sickness. Resources mentioned during the episode 1. Head Trash Clearance method You can discover how to use the technique I share in this episode – Head Trash Clearance – in my books; Clear Your Head Trash book Fearless Birthing book 2. Fear Clearance Track for a Fear of Being Sick If you don’t want to learn how to use Head Trash Clearance, and would prefer to just clear your fear, you can use this fear clearance audio track; 3. The reason you might be suffering from morning sickness Listen to Charan share why you might be suffering from morning sickness or nausea during pregnancy and what you can do about it. Episode Timestamps 00:00:34 Fear of vomit or being sick. Emetophobia program. 00:05:14 Fear of pregnancy and vomit can be overwhelming. 00:07:46 Traumatic memories can impact anxiety and worry. 00:13:52 Phobias make us do ridiculous things. 00:16:02 Tried head trash clearance to clear fears. 00:20:23 Get rid of phobias, manage anxieties instead. 00:22:22 Embrace absurdity, imagine fear as clown. Clear fear using own language. 00:25:33 Clear your fear of being sick. Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:01]: Hello, and welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. My name is Alexia Leachman. Thank you so much for ing me today. Now, on today’s show, I’m going to be talking all about the number one fear that affects everybody. Alexia [00:00:34]: Well, maybe not everybody, and it might not be the number one fear, but it definitely appears in a top three list if you just Google list of most common fears. And it often does actually feature number one, which is quite surprising, and that is the fear of vomit or the fear of being sick. So today could be quite a sickening episode for many of you if this is one of your fears. Now, before I dive into that, though, I do have a couple of updates I want to share with you. For those of you that wish to the next opening of my Tokophobia Clearance Group, then I have now opened the waitlist. So if this is something that you want to tackle in your life and you want to prepare for pregnancy or you’re thinking about starting a family, but right now you’re just too scared, then this could be just the group for you. This is a five week program where we dive into really kickstarting that fear clearance journey for you so that you can start making some headway and getting some wins in of feeling better, making a shift in of how you’re feeling. During this five week program, we get together every week to unpack the fears and conflicts that you’re wrestling with that are contributing to your Tokophobia, but also to clear some fears together. Alexia [00:01:51]: And then there is a Facebook group to you on your fear clearance journey so you can get all the help, , and guidance you need to help you to shift your Tokophobia for good. Now, some of the reasons that people this group are, well, one, you want to get rid of your fear so you can think about planning for a family, or maybe you want to get pregnant. And right now, it just feels too terrifying for you. But also, maybe you’re even before that stage, and you want to be able to make a decision as to whether or not you want children. And at the moment, you’re not able to make that decision. This is something that a lot of women face with, where they’re just so scared that they don’t know whether the reason they’re saying no to kids is because of their fear of birth and pregnancy or because they simply don’t want kids. And that can be a very difficult decision to make when you are overrun with fear. So to be able to get rid of the fear, so that you can make a decision that you can trust in your gut, in your heart, and a decision that you can live with without regret, that could be a reason that you might want to a group like this one. Alexia [00:02:53]: We had a lady like this and that was her reason for ing the group this time round. And she was able to in the last call that we had, she was able to say, oh my goodness, I had an experience where I saw another baby across the room, a new baby with their mum, and I just noticed myself feeling that, oh my goodness, I’m so glad that’s not me. And that feeling was very neutral, didn’t come with any emotion, didn’t come with any anxiety or fear. It was just a very clean, simple, peaceful thought that came to her. And she said that never ever come to her like that before. It would always fraught with anxiety and fear. So that’s just some of the reasons that you might want to a group like the Tokophobia Fear Clearance Group. And if you do, then just pop along to the Fearfreechildbirth.com website where you will find the Tokophobia Clearance Group page. Alexia [00:03:42]: Just head to the Tokophobia menu and you’ll find it there. And then you can the waitlist and there’ll be another group opening later on this year. There’s only limited spots on this group because we dive into a lot of detail and everyone gets a chance to share where they’re at during these group calls. And if there are too many people on the call, then those calls are just going to go on forever. So there are limited spots on this program. Okay, so back to today’s show, which is all about the fear of vomit and emetophobia. Are you ready? Get your buckets at the ready. Here we go. Alexia [00:04:20]: So for you stomach sensitive souls, are you going to be able to take this? Because I want to dive into this topic that might leave you feeling a little bit queasy. Emetophobia is the name, the proper name for the fear of vomit or the fear of being sick. So you might want to grab a bucket for this episode as we dive into the ins and outs of the fear of being sick. Now, I know it sounds like I’m joking or not taking this seriously, but this is a very serious phobia. And in fact, in some lists of phobias, in of what are the most common or the most prevalent phobias, emetophobia often appears in the top three. And this is surprising. I know that when I found out about this, I was amazed that a fear of being sick or a fear of vomit was so prominent and so common. Now this can be hugely challenging for many people. Alexia [00:05:14]: But it’s particularly difficult for those who are maybe contemplating pregnancy because of course we’ve all heard of morning sickness. So imagine what the thought of pregnancy will be like when also you’re wrestling with this fear of being sick. And this can become even worse when there are those people that also suffer from emetophobia, the fear of pregnancy or giving birth, because not only are they facing the fear of being pregnant, what, being pregnant, the whole experience, but also they’ve got a fear of vomit going on, on top. So when you start compounding these fears and phobias together, life can get very, very overwhelming and difficult for some. So let’s rewind, let’s go back to the beginning and let’s just get clear on what is the fear of vomit? What is emetophobia? It’s not just somebody that doesn’t like throwing up because I dare say many of us don’t like throwing up. Who does? Right? Who likes experiencing that vomit coming through your throat and the aftertaste? Nobody likes that. But really the fear of vomit takes this much, much further. It really is a deep seated fear that can elicit anxiety and panic just at the thought of being sick or around others who might. Alexia [00:06:32]: And so this means, as I’ve already mentioned, that this fear can really extend to situations where illness is a possibility or there is the possibility of being sick, as I’ve mentioned pregnancy already. So nobody wants to be ill, nobody wants to be unwell or be sick in of having an illness. But when there’s a possibility of vomiting taking place, then this really does accelerate the panic and the anxiety that people might be feeling around that. So where does it come from? How does one develop emetophobia? Well, the roots of it can often be traced back to a personal experience that you’ve had around vomiting or people vomiting. It’s not always your own personal experience of it and often you might think, well, I’ve not really had a trauma around that. But , a trauma isn’t always this hugely scary event that takes place. It can often be just an unpleasant experience, but you just can’t shake it, you always it. And so what usually happens with these situations is you have an emotional trace that is stuck within your system. Alexia [00:07:46]: So you might always be able to that time that you were sick and then so and so was watching and it was at school, it was really embarrassing or whatever was going on and that’s a memory that you will never forget. So that is likely to be a trauma for you if it’s one of these experiences that you can always recall in Technicolor Glory and you can all the details and it’s a story that maybe you like to tell that it’s because it is so clear in your mind and it’s so marked in your experience that maybe it’s not a dinner party story, but it’s certainly one that you’re able to recall easily. Because the details are so clear, because the emotional intensity has meant that you’re still carrying the memories very clearly within you. So some of these memories could be maybe when you were a child and you had a really bad stomach bug or you were present and witnessing somebody else who was really, really ill. So I know people, for example, who, when they were kids, their parents were very, very ill and were always being sick for whatever reason. And so just seeing a mother or a father being ill like that could be enough to create this fear within you. And particularly when it comes to witnessing your mother or your father being ill, then that’s going to be tied into some other aspects that are really going to make that a more anxious situation for you, because these are your caregivers. And so if you’re seeing them in distress, you’re seeing them being ill like that, then as a child, there’s going to be a part of you that’s going to be worrying about your own safety and who’s going to look after you. Alexia [00:09:26]: So this is really going to make that situation a lot more likely to be a traumatic one for you. Now, I just want to share how I came to have my own fear of vomit. And I didn’t realise that I had this fear until my aunt highlighted it to me. And so it’s not always something that you will pick up in childhood, because this was something that I picked up as a result of being a mother. And so it was my children being sick that created that trauma within me. So for me, this came about when I was on a car journey. So my other half at the time, he was working away and it was when my youngest was around nine months old. And so there was one weekend in January, we went to visit him and it was a really long drive. Alexia [00:10:12]: Well, it was for me, it was like a four hour drive and it was January weather, which in the UK was lashing rain, really bad rain, and obviously early nights as well. So it was getting dark at around 04:00 and I was hitting what is known as the road to hell in the UK, which is the M 25. It’s the periphery road that goes all around London and it’s always really caught, it’s got always roadworks and it’s always got really bad traffic on and I was hitting it on a Friday evening. So the worst time ever to hit the M 25 was when I was hitting it and it was really bad rain and there were roadworks. So I was driving through a part of the M 25 where I had a speed limit imposed of 50 miles an hour and I was just stuck bumper to bumper, nowhere to go, just had to just work, just sit tight and go through this roadwork section, which seemed to be going on for miles and miles. And in the middle of all that, my baby, my nine month old, started to be sick. Now, one of the things that she did at the time was soon after a feed, she would sometimes bring up her feed. And so I hit the roadworks just as she was now bringing up her feed, but I was stuck in the front seat as a driver on my own, and she was in the back, in her car seat. Alexia [00:11:31]: And so her being sick in the back, where I couldn’t come and help her, I couldn’t her, I couldn’t wipe her clean. She was sitting in the front and all I could hear, because I couldn’t look round all the time because I had to keep an eye on the road, all I could hear was my baby being sick in the back. And my head, it was like, oh, my God, she’s choking. Oh, my God, this is a nightmare. It’s going all over the car seats. It’s going on the back of the enger seat on the front, and I had fabric car seats. So I was just imagining just a nightmare unfolding in the back of the car. But worse is that, what if she was choking, I couldn’t do anything about it. Alexia [00:12:09]: What was I going to do? Stop the car in the middle of a motorway in the rain and the dark, putting us both in danger? So I was trapped in that situation and I couldn’t do anything about it. I just had to kind of take it. And when there’s a situation where you feel trapped or you have no control, this is really something that can really embed a trauma, because it’s this feeling that you can’t change your situation, you can’t get out of it, that really helps to embed a trauma. So my situation had trauma written all over it, really looking back. And so I was stuck in the car and I had to sit there, and then the whole car stank of vomit and I had to wait until I reached a moment where I could actually get off the motorway and deal with the situation. So for about half an hour or so, I was stuck with this situation. I mean, obviously she was okay and everything was fine, but this was an event that was the beginning of my own fear of vomit. But again, I didn’t realise that I had this fear on the back of that experience. Alexia [00:13:06]: But it did teach me that every car journey we had after that, I would be super, super stressed. And so any journey longer than half an hour, which was usually the lag between feeding and her bringing it up, I’d get really, really stressed about it. And then baby number two came along and it continued because I’d just think oh, my God. I’ve got two to deal with. Because I when I was a kid, I would always be sick in the car on long journeys. And that happened up until I was maybe seven or eight, I don’t know. And so I was just imagining that for the next eight years of my life, every car journey, we couldn’t go more than an hour away from home because I was going to have to starve the children before getting in the car so that they couldn’t be sick. These ridiculous situations help me not have to confront vomit. Alexia [00:13:52]: And if we did have a long journey, then we’d have to stop all the time, like, every hour or so, just to and again in my head, it’s like, well, give them some fresh air, make sure they kind of in my head, I think I was resetting the timer. If we stop the car now, then we’ve got another half hour before they’re likely to be sick. And I don’t know where this logic came from, because it’s just ridiculous, right? But this is what phobias look like. We do things that, to other people, just look completely ridiculous. And you look a little bit crazy because you’re going to all these lengths to avoid a situation, to try and manage a situation, try and control a situation that may be not controllable. And it’s almost a little bit obsessive, really. My situation with my kids came to a little bit of a head once when I was going on holiday with both the kids and my French aunt who’d come over from , and we were driving from Birmingham in the UK to West Wales. So for those of you that aren’t from the UK, that’s quite a long drive in UK , because obviously in the UK we’re not used to big long drives because the island is quite small, especially compared to the US, right? So this drive in the UK is probably like a five, six hour drive, but for us, on this occasion, turned into a seven plus hour drive, because I had to stop all the time just so the kids could have their fresh air and not be sick. Alexia [00:15:14]: So I was entirely responsible for this drive being really, really long and not that great. And so when it came to the return journey, my aunt, who is actually a very wise lady, she said to me that all of this vomiting was the kids responding to my fear of them vomiting. And I was like, Are you crazy? Like, what have I got to do with this? I’m just trying to manage this situation. This is just something that the universe has given me. It’s not my fault. How can it be my fault? And she was quite stern with me about it and said, no, this is your stuff. You are creating the anxiety, you are creating this and they’re responding to you. I’m not getting in that car until you heal this, because this is ridiculous. Alexia [00:16:02]: So it took me a while to just sit with that and go, okay, thanks for that. Let me just think about that. And I thought, well, what have I got to lose? It’ll take me, what, 10-15 minutes to clear this using head trash clearance, so I might as well if it works, then if it is me and it works, then brilliant. Then why would I not want to do this? So that’s what I did. I relented eventually and took on her recommendation, and I found a quiet spot, and I used head trash clearance to clear my fear of vomit and my fear of my kids being sick in the car. So this took me about 20 minutes. And what happened as a result of that was quite mind boggling, really. We then set off on our seven hour drive home, and this journey was like no other journey I’d done with my kids. Alexia [00:16:55]: For a start, both of them just fell asleep immediately as we left where we were leaving, and then they did not wake up at all throughout the whole journey. And so the journey, as it transpired, wasn’t a seven plus hour journey. It was more like a five, like four to five hour journey. But we were so like, oh, my God, they’re sleeping. They’re sleeping. Let’s not stop the car. We can’t stop the car because they’ll wake up, so we better just let’s just keep going. And we ended up doing the whole journey without stopping. Alexia [00:17:25]: Both of us were so desperate for a pee by the time we got there, desperate for a drink, desperate for food, for lunch, anything. We were just ready to stop the car. But they slept the whole way. And I’d never, ever experienced that. I mean, for two kids to be doing that for over 5 hours, it was just completely unheard of. And since then, they hadn’t been they’ve not really been sick in the car. She told me, didn’t she? My aunt, she told me. That was absolutely my fear of vomit. Alexia [00:17:54]: And when I think back to that experience I had on the M 25, it absolutely was a trauma, and that was the root trauma of my own fear of vomit. And of course, my fear wasn’t about me being sick. That’s, I think, where the confusion in my own head would have come from. It was around other people being sick. So I never really if somebody had said to me, have you got a fear of vomit? I would have gone, no, of course I’m fine if I have to be sick, it’s not a problem. But I wasn’t fine if my kids had to be sick. So you see, if you do have a fear of vomit or a fear of being sick, this doesn’t have to be something that you have to keep with you all the time. It is something you can get rid of. Alexia [00:18:33]: Now of course, we’re all different. So let me just share with you some of the other things that you can do to help you to conquer this fear of emetophobia. I hope I’m saying it right now. I think the first thing that is useful to do is really to just become knowledgeable about it, understand what’s going on, maybe take some time to understand the science behind some of the stomach related escapades that are going on. Because the more you understand something, the less intimidating they become. Again. If you’re pregnant and you’re facing morning sickness, then understand the physiological reasons behind morning sickness. Because once you understand, you can then particularly in the context of pregnancy, sometimes it is part of a healthy pregnancy. Alexia [00:19:20]: And when you understand how morning sickness can feature as part of a healthy pregnancy, you might be able to reframe that fear for yourself. Now, I have done a podcast for those that are suffering from morning sickness. I did a podcast on my fear free childbirth podcast, sharing what some of the reasons could be why there’s morning sickness occurring. And so I’ll be putting a link in the show notes for this episode so you can go and dig in to that other episode I did, because the advice that I shared, or my guest, my guest Sharan shared during that episode around how you can conquer morning sickness and therefore not vomit, not be sick during your pregnancy. After that podcast episode, I had lots of emails from women saying oh, I did that, I tried that and it totally worked. So I will be putting a link in the show notes for this episode. Now, the other thing that I think is also worth considering is getting help, getting professional help. So speak to a health professional who can help you with anxiety disorders and help you to find ways of managing the phobia or indeed getting rid of it. Alexia [00:20:23]: I’m more about getting rid of stuff. I’m not really interested in managing a phobia when for me it’s so easy to get rid of a phobia. But I do realise that some people prefer to manage anxieties and phobias. They’re not ready necessarily to eliminate anxiety and phobia. So if managing your phobia, managing your anxiety is more down your street, then absolutely seek the help of a mental health professional that can do that for you, help you, give you some tailored strategies around managing the phobia. Apparently CBT can help, exposure therapy can help to reduce the intensity of the fear. And of course, if you do want to find somebody that works with head trash clearance, myself included, and those that I train or indeed fearless birthing, if you want to work with somebody on your pregnancy journey and getting rid of your birth fears, then you can eliminate that phobia with head trash clearance. The other thing I’ll say if you’re pregnant is just to make sure that those people around you, your team, know about your fear, so they can you if anything happens and that there’s vomiting going on, they’re prepared and they can help to shield you from it or whatever is going on. Alexia [00:21:35]: They can be there for you. If people know what you’re experiencing, they can much better you. Now, you can also look at self care. You look at mindfulness techniques or any other practices that you can help that maybe you use as part of managing your own anxiety. Maybe you can use some of those things to help you to manage your emetophobia as well. Now, the other thing which I think is really worth doing, which might not be for everyone, but it’s about laughing at your fear. Because if we can bring humour to our mental health challenges, to our emotional health challenges, that can really help us to heal and reframe what we’re feeling in a way that maybe feels less threatening, less negative. So perhaps humour could be a really good one for you. Alexia [00:22:22]: You could maybe embrace the absurdity of this fear and give your fear a ridiculous name like Sir Gagalot, for example, and then imagine it in a clown costume and suddenly your fear is a lot harder to take seriously. And you’ve already started that process of cutting those emotional cords to this fear that you’re holding onto, and it becomes much more easy to release it. And of course, the final thing you can do is just clear this fear yourself, just as I did. So I use Head Trash clearance to clear this fear, and I share how you can use this in both of my books, Clear Your Head Trash and Fearless Birthing. And so everything, all the instructions are in the book. You just take what I’ve shared and you decide what it is that you want to clear. So what do I mean when I say you have to decide what it is that you want to clear? Well, it’s really about the language because we need to be using the language that resonates for you when you’re clearing a fear like this. So when you think about this, do you use the word vomit or do you use the word being sick or do you use them interchangeably? So you need to get clear on this, or is there another word that you use? I know in the UK I grew up and there was a word that we used all the time called chundering. Alexia [00:23:40]: So chundering, it might be that you think about vomiting as chundering, in which case, use that, use vomit, use being sick, use chucking up, I don’t know, whatever you want to use. It’s got to be the language that you use in your head that is part of your own lexicon. So decide what that is and maybe do a mishmash of all of those because maybe you use a lot of those . So just use a mishmash of them and then just make sure that that’s what you insert into the head trash clearance mantras. So it could be that you have one clearance that’s all about the act of being sick or vomiting or chundering or chucking up or whatever is, whatever that is for you. But then there could be some other clearances that you might want to consider. Because it could be that while you’re vomiting and while you’re being sick, what you don’t like about that situation, maybe it’s the taste and the smell. Maybe it’s how you look. Alexia [00:24:31]: Maybe you think you look like a real idiot, vomiting at the side of the road or whatever’s going on in your hair and looking all red and tearful. And so maybe it’s about how you look. Maybe it’s because you don’t like the loss of control that’s going on around that experience and how you don’t know when it’s going to stop. Why are you doing this? What’s going on? I don’t have the answers. So not being in control could also be a good clearance to do as well. Maybe you don’t like the idea that you’re being humiliated or you’re humiliating yourself or making yourself look silly. So again, humiliation or looking silly or whatever that thing is that you’re worried about, those would be also very useful to consider in of clearances. And so if you’re not sure, a good question to ask yourself is this: what is it about being sick that I hate? Or what is it about being sick that makes me uncomfortable? And the answer to that question is probably the clearance that you need to do. Alexia [00:25:33]: So just think about that as much as you can. Obviously, when you have a fear of something, it can be hard to think about something. But if you start off with the fear of being sick clearance and then ask that question of yourself and see what comes up, and if all of that sounds like way too much effort, then I have got you covered because I have created a fear clearance track for this phobia. So if you want to head over to the shop where you can find the fear clearance track for a fear of being sick or a fear of vomiting, and then all you have to do is just listen to me doing all of that stuff, and then you just clear it by listening so much easier all round. So I just want to wrap up here around this phobia, this fear. If you have got this fear, then look at it as a gift. This is an opportunity for you to heal something within yourself. This is an opportunity for you to let go of this fear. Alexia [00:26:25]: Even though it might be a formidable opponent, it’s not entirely invincible. You can get rid of it with a little bit of knowledge, maybe some therapy or some professional , little bit of humour, maybe some exposure therapy. Maybe doing a clearance, but you can wrestle back control over this fear for yourself so that you are not the one that’s being controlled by it. Because with the right tools and the right , you can absolutely embrace life and not be shied into a corner by a fear of vomit or a fear of being sick. Well, I hope that was an insightful episode for you and that you now have hope if maybe emetophobia or a fear of vomit is something that you struggle with. And if you decide to give the fear clearance, track a go. I’d love to hear how you get on. Okay, until next time. Alexia [00:27:17]: Bye for now. 

The Power of Healing Your Hidden Pregnancy and Birth Trauma In this episode I explore hidden pregnancy and birth trauma. Discover how ancestral trauma can fuel fears and anxieties about pregnancy and birth, even if you’ve never been pregnant. I also share my personal healing journey, transforming my perspective on childbirth. me in addressing any hidden pregnancy and birth trauma for a fearless pregnancy and birth. I’d like to dive into a topic that often gets overshadowed by nursery décor and baby names: the importance of healing your emotional wounds and traumas around pregnancy and birth. Pregnancy and childbirth are undoubtedly transformative experiences, and while they can be filled with joy and excitement, they can also bring forth a surge of emotions, some of which may be deeply rooted in our past. So, let’s chat about why taking care of your emotional well-being during this time is not just a good idea – it’s crucial. 1. Emotions and Pregnancy: A Deep Connection Pregnancy is a powerful journey that connects the physical and emotional aspects of our lives in a profound way. As your body changes and grows, so do your emotions. It’s like a rollercoaster ride – thrilling, sometimes scary, and occasionally a bit overwhelming. But here’s the thing: those rollercoaster emotions aren’t just about what’s happening in the moment. They can also be influenced by unresolved issues and traumas from the past. These emotional wounds can impact your overall experience, your connection with your baby, and even your postpartum period. If you’ve had difficult pregnancy or birth experiences in the past, then making peace with them is an important step for you to be able to enjoy the future. And I don’t just mean future pregnancy or birth experiences, but YOUR future. Difficult or traumatic pregnancy and birth experiences will stay with you and will cloud your parenting journey. Releasing them will enable you to enjoy your time as a parent. And, if you’re struggling with fears of pregnancy or birth, or are suffering from tokophobia, then it’s likely that you have some traumas or wounds that are feeding your fears. These might well be traumas or emotional wounds that are related to pregnancy or birth. Taking the time to heal any pregnancy and birth trauma will help you make good progress in releasing your fears and getting to a place whereby you can enjoy your pregnancy or the thought of being pregnant. 2. Create a Healthy Emotional Blueprint for Your Baby The emotional state you’re in during pregnancy can have a lasting impact on your little one. Babies in the womb are incredibly perceptive and attuned to their mother’s emotional state. I’ve talked about this a lot in the past, and I’ve interviewed the Father of Prenatal Psychology himself, Dr Thomas Verny all about this important topic. So be sure to listen to that episode if you want to better understand this. Putting time aside to heal any pregnancy and birth trauma, you’re not only taking care of yourself but also nurturing a healthy emotional environment for your baby. Imagine the beautiful ripple effect of starting your baby’s life with a foundation of love, peace, and emotional well-being. It’s like giving them a head start in the game of life! 3. A Fear Free Childbirth Experience When you’ve worked through your emotional baggage, you’re more likely to approach birth with confidence and calm. There is a lot of evidence to this and it’s one of the surer ways to guarantee a smooth and fear-free childbirth experience. Birth is a transformative event, and it’s normal to feel anxious or fearful. However, healing emotional wounds can help you manage these emotions and make the birthing process smoother and less stressful. Our emotional wounds feed our fears and anxieties, so when we take the time to heal our wounds, we are taking away the fuel that feeds our fears. 4. Postpartum Bliss The postpartum period can be a challenging time, filled with sleepless nights, baby care, and hormonal fluctuations. If you’ve addressed your emotional wounds, you’ll be better equipped to handle these challenges with grace and resilience. Healing emotionally allows you to tap into your inner strength and navigate the postpartum journey more smoothly. And, let’s be honest, it’s not just the postpartum journey, but the parenting journey too! 5. Lead by Example As parents, we want the best for our children, of course we do! By demonstrating the importance of emotional wellness and showing them how to heal and grow, you’re setting a powerful example. Your child will learn from your actions and understand that it’s okay to seek help and when needed. This has got to be one of the most powerful lessons they can learn. A child that learns emotional regulation early on, is a fortunate one indeed. 6. Enjoy Parenthood Ultimately, healing emotional wounds during pregnancy and birth is about creating the best possible environment for both you and your baby. It’s about stepping into parenthood with a sense of peace, love, and emotional clarity, which can lead to a more fulfilling and joyful parenting journey. it also means that you’re able to maintain a much healthier relationship with your partner. And, if you can both be healing your wounds, even better! Would You Like To Heal Your Pregnancy and Birth Trauma? I’ve created some Wound Healing Activations to help you to do just that. My Wound Healing Activations are powerful healing tracks that work in a layered approach to help to you heal the various aspects of the emotional wounds and traumas you might be carrying around pregnancy or birth. Our emotional wounds and traumas are made up of various aspects; the event itself how we feel about the event how we feel about the people involved in the event how we feel about how we reacted and responded during the event the meanings we’ve internalised as a result of the event There are other aspects of trauma that make up our wounds but these are the ones that tend to show up in our conscious mind and replay on a loop. This is what can make these wounds so intrusive in our day-to-day lives. Pregnancy and Birth Trauma Healing Activations In order for us to heal from our wounds, it’s important that we explore each of these aspects. That’s why my wound healing activations also come with a Wound Healing Journal. The Wound Healing Journal includes prompts for you to work through the various facets of the wound so that you can explore how the wound has shown up for you. This helps you to bring things to the surface so that you can let them go. My wound healing activations also include a video talking through the wound. This video is to help you to explore the wound, and to work through the Wound Healing Journal. Then, when you’re ready, you can use the Healing Activation Audio MP3 track to release the wound. .            The Fear Free Childbirth Shop includes wound healings for many other wounds, including common inner child wounds like Abandonment, Rejection and Betrayal. Pregnancy and birth are incredible experiences, but they can also be emotionally challenging. Taking the time to heal your emotional wounds and traumas is an investment in your well-being, your baby’s future, and your overall happiness as a parent. It’s not just a good idea; it’s an essential step on your journey to parenthood. , you don’t have to go through this alone – seek the you need, and embrace the healing process with open arms. Here’s to a happy, healthy, and emotionally well-balanced journey into parenthood! Resources mentioned during the podcast Here are some of the resources mentioned during the podcast that can help you to tackle your pregnancy and birth trauma Heal your Pregnancy Traumas I’ve created a Wound Healing Activation to address the emotional wounds you’re carrying around pregnancy. This healing activation was created to help you to release the trapped emotions you’re carrying around both your own experiences and those of your ancestors (ancestral trauma). It also targets your experience in the womb to help you to release any wounds your mother may have endured when she was carrying you.   Heal your Birth Traumas I’ve also created a Wound Healing Activation to address the emotional wounds you’re carrying around birth. This healing activation was created to help you to release the trapped emotions you’re carrying around both your own experiences and those of your ancestors (ancestral trauma). It also targets your own birth experience, so if you found this traumatic and have trapped emotions as a result, it may help you to let them go. Wound Healing Journal The Wound Healing Journal that comes as part of these Healing Activations includes prompts for you to think unpack and explore the various aspects of these wounds, so that you can more easily let them go. Episode Timestamps 00:02:08 Head trash clearance helps birth professionals, clients. 00:04:40 Pregnancy and birth trauma, emotional wounds. 00:08:59 Puberty, pregnancy, and menopause bring common themes. Uncover and heal underlying wounds for self-healing. 00:12:46 Healing trauma is not like shaken Coke. 00:13:58 Heal wounds gradually, release pressure, tackle trauma. 00:17:16 Difficult experiences linger, heal to lighten burden. 00:23:17 Activations and journal for healing inner wounds. 00:24:28 Work on healing journey, find Healing Activations. Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:01]: You’re listening to the fear free childbirth podcast with me, Alexia Leachman. Let me help you to take the fear out of pregnancy, birth, and beyond with a mix of real life stories and experts sharing their wisdom. I’ll also be sharing psychology insights to help you to cultivate a fearless mindset, be inspired, and be empowered with fear free childbirth. And now it’s time for the show. Hello, and welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. My name is Alexa Leachman. Thank you so much for ing me today. Now, on today’s show, I want to be diving into the topic of pregnancy and birth traumas. Alexia [00:00:48]: And more specifically, I want to encourage you to consider the possibility that you’re carrying hidden pregnancy and birth traumas. And so what I mean by that are traumas or memories of events that have taken place that maybe you don’t have a conscious recollection of. Because when it comes to birth trauma, many of us often immediately think of these big, dramatic, scary events around birth and pregnancy. But we don’t often consider the possibility that we might be carrying the memories of events that we don’t . And I’m referring to things like your own birth, your arrival into the world, but also the memories of pregnancies and births that have come down through your lineage, through your maternal ancestors, your paternal ancestors. And if there have been any difficult pregnancy or birth experiences that have been had in the family, then it’s very likely that you’re carrying those memories within you. And so that’s the angle that I want to bring today to this topic. But before I do, I just want to remind those of you about my professional training in fearless birthing and head trash clearance. Alexia [00:02:08]: So if you’re a doula, a midwife, or a therapist, or somebody who helps people to let go of their fears and anxieties, then I think you’ll be very interested in learning head trash clearance to you in your work and to help clients to achieve the rapid kind of results that head trash clearance can bring. I’m going to be opening up the training later on this month, in September. And so if you are a doula or a midwife and you want to use this with your clients to help them to get rid of the fears they’re facing maybe in the birth space as they are in labour. I was clearing my fears throughout my labour experience, and even as it was coming up to when my baby’s head was crowning and I was getting stuck at that point, it was getting stuck at that point. And I realised in that moment that I had fear around the pain of the ring of fire that was really getting in way of me fully letting go. And so I was able to clear that fear in between contractions, and then in the next contraction, baby came out. Now, obviously, if you’re a midwife or a doula, maybe not all your clients or your patients are going to know how to do that, but if you can them in doing that and do that for them, then you can help to bring about these incredible birth experiences for women. So if you’re a doula or a midwife or other pregnancy or birth professional and you’re interested in finding out more about the Fearless Birthing training that’s coming up later this month, then you can head over to the Fearless Birthing website where you can find out all about the training options there. Alexia [00:03:41]: And maybe you’re not a birth or pregnancy professional and you work with people in other capacities, maybe you’re a sports coach or maybe you work in a corporate setting, perhaps as a business coach or a marketing coach. Even then you can still be using Head Trash Clearance to help your clients get incredible results. I’ve been doing that for many years as a business coach too. I’ve used Head Trash clearance to help CEOs manage better, get incredible uptakes in their revenue with their businesses. So the fear clearance method that I’ve developed is not just restricted to pregnancy and birth. Your mind does not care what the fear is, it just cares that it’s a fear, it’s an anxiety, it’s a conflict that needs to be healed. So whatever those anxieties or conflicts are, they can be healed and you can be free to achieve your life and business desires. So if you want to find out more about Head Trash clearance training, then head over to headtrashclearance.com for more information. Alexia [00:04:40]: Okay, now back to today’s show. So let’s talk about pregnancy and birth trauma. Now I know this isn’t a nice or pleasant topic, but it’s an important one that I think we need to bring out in the open and talk about. Now, the thing about trauma is a lot of people, when they hear the words birth trauma, for example, immediately go to the idea that there’s this very difficult and traumatic birth experience that someone has had. And yes, that does affect many, many women. But I think we need to sort of open up the scope of what we mean by trauma and particularly emotional wounds and how they relate to the pregnancy and birth experience journey. Because really there are many wounds that we’re carrying within us, many traumas that we’re carrying within us that are related to pregnancy and birth experiences, but we may not necessarily think that we are carrying them or that we’ve had those experiences, especially those that are new to pregnancy, have never been pregnant, never giving birth. The idea that you might be carrying trauma over experienced trauma in relation to those two things might be really puzzling to you. Alexia [00:05:54]: And so this is what I really want to touch on briefly, is that we are carrying the memories and the traumas of these experiences from our mothers, from our grandmothers and way further back than that. And we need to acknowledge this ancestral trauma that all women are carrying within them of the birth and pregnancy experiences that have been had by our ancestors. And so when you’re struggling maybe with fears or anxieties around pregnancy or birth that don’t seem to make sense to you and that’s the thing, I think that a lot of people, particularly those with tokophobia find is that they have this phobia and they don’t know why they have it. Those with primary tokophobia who’ve never been pregnant or never giving birth, they’re confused. A lot of them are confused like, why do I feel this way? What’s going on? And the reason for their phobia often is a buried wound, a buried trauma. A trauma that maybe they’re just not consciously aware of. Now, for many with tokophobia, usually not always, but usually that wound might be the trauma from their very own birth experience. So their own arrival into the world. Alexia [00:07:13]: And many of us, let’s be honest, we don’t all our own birth. I certainly don’t my own birth. But what I do know is this and that that birth that I had was a traumatic one for me. And I don’t know why, but that was the trauma that was at the root of my tokophobia. And it was when I healed that trauma that I was able to finally see the light in of my own fears. I could see the end in sight. I felt much lighter and I was like, you know what? I can do this. I can now do this. Alexia [00:07:47]: I’ve got a few more fears I need to clear, but I’m out of the woods. And it was healing my trauma that was that pivotal moment for me from going from a place of anxiety and despair and just overwhelming dread around birth and pregnancy to one of feeling like I could actually do this. And I was near the end, the end was in sight. And I’m sharing that with you. Some of you may have heard this, made me share this already, but I’m sharing that with you because I think we need to just consider the possibility that we are carrying these wounds and these traumas that are related to pregnancy and birth experiences that may not be our own, but that we’re carrying the memories of those experiences within us. And so if we really want to heal and be free of our anxieties and our wounds, then we need to take a look at what might be some of those hidden wounds and those hidden traumas that we’re carrying. And so given that this is a podcast about pregnancy and birth, then I’m going to obviously talk about wounds that are related to pregnancy and birth. I think one that deserves a mention and I’m going to be doing a whole separate podcast on this is trauma around puberty. Alexia [00:08:59]: And I think a lot of women don’t realise, or maybe don’t think that they did experience trauma going through puberty, but there are a lot of common elements between the puberty journey and the pregnancy journey, and then again with the menopausal journey. These transitions that we go through as women, where our body changes, where things are happening that we’re not in control of, these are common themes in all three of those stages that can really undermine you, especially if you’ve got wounds that are hiding beneath the surface that you’re not aware of. So when you think about wounds that you might be carrying, wounds that have the theme of not being in control of your body, of not knowing what’s going on, not knowing how things are going to turn out, if there’s any wounds that have those kind of themes going on, then they could be playing out in your pregnancy and birth fears. And so what I like to do is I want to make this as easy as possible for you to heal your wounds, because we don’t always not all of us have got the money to go and find a professional to us with our journey, with our healing journey. And for many of us, it is possible to do that healing ourselves. And so I’m always looking for ways to come up with solutions for people to do that self healing, to take charge of their own healing journey so that you can decide what’s going on with you. If you’re wrestling with something, if you’re struggling with something, then you can say to yourself, hey, well, okay, I don’t like how I’m feeling about this. This is really dragging me down. Alexia [00:10:41]: This is really making me struggle with this situation, with this thing that I’m dealing with right now. And I don’t want to be like this. I don’t want this to carry on. And so if you decide that you want to change, that you want to do something about it, then I want to be able to help you and meet you halfway and go, hey, okay, if you’re ready to do this, if you want to do this, here are some things that can help you. And so that’s what I’m all about. And of course, some people will need to find professional and need somebody there to hold their hand through it, to help them to process what’s happened to them in of traumas that they’ve experienced. And that is absolutely valid. But there are many people, too, that simply want to let go of this stuff, to let go of these trapped emotions that are just weighing them down. Alexia [00:11:25]: And so that is what I want to you with as much as I can, so that you can let go of anything that is getting in the way of you being able to think about birth or pregnancy or parenthood with anything other than love and joy in your heart and excitement and fun. And having kids is fun. Yes, it’s hard work. I’m not going to say it’s not hard work and it can be a total pain at times. Absolutely. But there’s lots of joy in there too. And when you’re overcome with fear and anxiety, it’s difficult to access the joy. So if there’s anything I can do to help you to access that within your life, then that’s what I want to know. Alexia [00:12:07]: But thinking about healing your wounds and healing your pregnancy and birth trauma, some people think, well, I don’t know if I want to go there, Lex. I don’t think that I want to open that box. I’ve managed to bury it. It was a difficult experience for me. And I’ve put it in a box and it’s on the top shelf and I don’t want to go near it because what happens when I open that box, it’s just going to blow up in my face. I’m going to be a mess. I’m not sure I’m ready for that. And I hear that a lot and I totally understand that position because opening up our Pandora’s box of fear and I use that term because it’s a term that a lot of my clients have used over the years and so I come to use it too. Alexia [00:12:46]: And I like the metaphor or the analogy that I like to bring to mind in this situation is like a bottle of Coke, okay? So many people imagine that when they go to their Pandora’s box of traumas and wounds and difficult experiences in life, they imagine that they’ve put the lid on and there’s an enormous amount of pressure there, that stuff that just wants to come out. And there’s a lot of effort being taken in keeping that box shut and putting it well out of arm’s reach very much. And they imagine that when they open the lid, it’s going to be like a bottle of Coke that you’ve shaken where it’s just going to go everywhere and you’re going to be dealing with an absolute mess, usually your own hot mess. And the idea of bursting into tears, being uncontrollable and just losing your mind, losing your state of, you know, your state of just being able to be calm, people just don’t want to do that. And I understand that. But when it comes to healing our wounds and healing our traumas, it’s not always like opening a shaken bottle of Coke. It is possible to just like you normally open a regular bottle of fizz. You can just open the bottle that’s not been shaken and it’ll just go and that’s it. Alexia [00:13:58]: And so when you take it, or if you open the lid slowly, it’ll just gradually release the pressure. And so this is what you can do with your wounds and your traumas by healing individual wounds a bit at a time, one at a time, you can release the pressure that is felt within your Pandora’s box so that you can work through the stuff. You can take it one piece at a time, release the pressure, lighten your load, lighten your emotional load so that all of those wounds that you’re carrying within you don’t feel as heavy. So that when you do want to take a look at the more tricky ones in there, the more painful ones in there, you’ve let go of some of the lighter ones, you’ve let go of some of the ones that maybe aren’t so painful, and you’ve got more resilience, more emotional strength to be able to tackle the ones that are left. When I’m working with people, I always encourage them to work around the edges. One term I like to use is, say, sometimes, you know, at some point you might think, I’ve got to go in through the front door. The front door is where it’s all happening. The front door. Alexia [00:15:01]: You can think of that as being where your biggies are. That’s where my big scary events are hiding. They’re behind the front door. But you don’t always have to go in through the front door. You can go in through the side, you can go in through the garden, you can go in through one of the upstairs windows. And by doing that, you’re still getting in there, doing a bit of tidying, doing a bit of releasing, but it isn’t with the big scary stuff. And so if you do go in these side doors, going through the garden, then what you’re doing by doing that is building your emotional resilience, is building your emotional strength so that you’re better able to handle the prospect of going through the front door. If you’re feeling overrun with your fears and overrun with your anxieties, you’re thinking, well, hang on, there’s a big scary monster in the front door. Alexia [00:15:48]: I’m not ready for that yet. I don’t think I can handle dealing with that. I haven’t got the strength I need to hold my bat and use my arms to be able to bat that thing away. And I haven’t got the strength to even pick up the bat right now. Right, so leave it. Don’t go there. Go around the aside. Go and clear some of the stuff that maybe doesn’t feel as terrifying for you. Alexia [00:16:13]: So what could that be? That could be your wounds around some of your inner child wounds. There are lots of wounds that we’re all carrying these universal emotional wounds around. Abandonment or rejection or betrayal or guilt or injustice. These are wounds that we’ve all got to a certain degree. And some of them, yes, will be biggies for you, potentially, but some of them might not be so big for you, but they’re still going to be wounds. I when I was looking into all these wounds and I read about the injustice wound and I was like, well, that’s not one of mine. I don’t know. Not, of course, I haven’t got that. Alexia [00:16:49]: But when I was really familiarising myself with the telltale signs of this wound, I was like, oh my goodness, I have got this one. Yes, of course I’ve got this one, I’ve got loads of these telltale signs. So I went and healed the wound and was able to release a load of stuff. And that along with healing other wounds that maybe I thought, well, I haven’t got that. No, I haven’t got that. But the minute you start healing them, you start realising that, oh, I have got a bit of that going on. Of course I have. How can I have not had that going on? I’m a human being that’s had a life. Alexia [00:17:16]: Some of these experiences, humiliation, injustice, they’re very difficult to escape by the time you reached adulthood or the age where you might be pregnant. So of course you’re carrying some of these wounds to a degree. So maybe go and heal some of these wounds that don’t feel so pressing for you, that don’t feel so big and scary for you. And in doing so, you will be lightening the emotional load if that’s what you want to do. I’ve got loads of these wound healings in the fear free childbirth shop that you can go and do on your own, in your own time. And doing this can really help you to lighten the emotional load and give you that emotional resilience so that you can think about going in through the front door and dealing with some of the more scarier aspects or scarier wounds that you’re holding within you. Now, if you have got some pregnancy and birth wounds that you do want to tackle, I’ve also got some wound healings for those too. Now, the thing about having, about clearing your wounds around pregnancy and birth is if you’ve had a very difficult pregnancy experience and I know I’ve worked with many women who they didn’t know they had tokophobia until they got pregnant, so it was an accidental pregnancy, much like mine was. Alexia [00:18:23]: I didn’t realise that I had tokophobia until I got the pregnancy test and then I felt terrible and just fell into a pit of despair. And this is common as I’m finding I’ve worked with many women, had very similar experiences and so I didn’t know why I felt this way. But again, like I mentioned earlier, this was down to my own birth trauma. So if you are wrestling with a fear or a phobia, then it’s likely that you’ve got a pregnancy trauma going on there, maybe inherited or acquired from your mother, your grandmother. Maybe you’ve got a birth trauma going on in there that is maybe your own birth again, maybe you inherited it from your mother, maybe you experienced it in utero. If your mother had a difficult pregnancy experience with you, then you will pick up on that as a baby when she was carrying you. So ask your mother what was that pregnancy like for her if she struggled. When we’re being carried by our mothers, we’re sharing consciousness, we’re sharing body. Alexia [00:19:23]: We’re one and the same at that moment. So what she experiences, we experience. So ask your mother what she experienced when she was carrying you and that might give you some clues as to what might be going on for you in of some of the wounds that you’re carrying. I know when I was on my healing journey, when I’ve been trying to dig into why I was still struggling with certain things, I went down the trauma healing route because I realised that was really going to be my next level with my own healing journey. And that was really where I needed to go with my healing to start breaking through to a new level of consciousness, to a new level of happiness and peace within. The level for me was really tackling all my inner wounds, the hidden wounds particularly. And what really surprised me was how many of those wounds I was carrying were from my in utero experience and from whatever my mother was experiencing. So I was walking around with wounds that weren’t even mine, they were hers. Alexia [00:20:26]: But because she was carrying me and it happened when I was in my second or third trimester, then that just became the fabric of my being and within my DNA, within my body. And I was carrying it until I then took the time to release them and let them go. And my goodness, what a release they were. I mean, half an hour crying like a crazy person and wondering what on earth I was healing. And it was a total mystery at the time that I was healing it. What was I healing, what was so painful for me. But it was later that I was able to tune into what that was and when that was, and then when I was able to figure out what that experience was that embedded that trauma in me in the first place. So I’m sharing that with you because I think we do need to open our eyes, open our minds into the possibilities of these hidden wounds that we’re carrying around pregnancy and birth. Alexia [00:21:21]: And just because we don’t have a conscious recollection of something doesn’t mean we’re not carrying the memories of those things within us. And it’s very likely that even if we’re not carrying memories from our own in utero experience or childhood that we can’t , that maybe there’s ancestral trauma going on there. Maybe it’s traumas that our mother experienced when she was carrying us. Maybe we’re bringing stuff down the family line, down the lineage of the women in the family, of what their experiences were in birth and pregnancy. And when you think back to what your ancestors went through, what my mother, what my grandmother went through, they lived through wars. Imagine being pregnant during a war, giving birth in wartime and what that does to you when there’s rationing, when there’s not enough food. This is where a lot of our scarcity wound might come in for you where fear of conflict because at some point you’ve got these memories of very extreme conflict within your ancestral line. So I’m going to wrap up now, but I really wanted to just share with you the reasons why it’s important to open our mind to the hidden aspects of the wounds that we’re carrying and how releasing them and healing them doesn’t have to be this hugely painful shaking a bottle of Coke experience. Alexia [00:22:41]: It can be a more gentle experience. Yes, it might involve tears, yes, it might involve a pile of tissues, but crying, no one’s going to die from crying. Crying is okay. Crying is an important release that we need to do. It’s a way of letting go. And once that’s out, once you’ve cried it all out, yes, you might feel spent and you might need to go and have a lie down, but oh my goodness, how lighter you will feel and how much better you will feel afterwards. And this lightness will help you to shift your perspective and to look at things differently. And that is transformational. Alexia [00:23:17]: That’s the kind of thing that can really shift your experiences not only in life, but also around pregnancy and birth. So if you are interested in healing your pregnancy and birth trauma, your hidden wounds around pregnancy, birth or indeed any of the other inner child wounds that I’ve mentioned, such as abandonment or loss or scarcity, rejection, betrayal, any of those. I’ve created Wound Healing Activations for all of those so that you can work through them in your own time. Process it. There’s a Wound Healing journal that comes with all of these so that you can maybe think through what’s going on with this wound, how it’s showing up for you, where it might have come from. Sometimes it’s useful to do that conscious processing, to think about who’s related to this wound, like who’s involved in this wound for you, who was maybe responsible for putting it there. How do you feel about that? How do you feel about them now? How do you feel about the way that this wound has affected you and your behaviour? These are all important aspects of our wounds that when we think through them, it can really help us to kind of identify important stages or important to do’s on our healing journey. You go, oh, actually that was an important thing I learned and that’s brought about my need. Alexia [00:24:28]: That’s where I’ve got my thing around not wanting to lose control. So I need to work on how I feel about losing control because that came about as part of this experience. Untangling, all this is how we start to heal. And so bringing some of this understanding into your conscious mind can really help you with your healing journey. And that’s what I want to help you with. So if you want to find out any of these Healing Activations, then just head over to the Fear Free Childbirth shop, where there’s a whole range waiting for you to assist you on your healing journey. Well, that wraps up today’s show. I hope that you found today’s show useful, interesting, insightful, and all of those things. Alexia [00:25:06]: And I’ll see you again next week on the fear free childbirth show. Bye for now. You’ve been listening to the fear free childbirth podcast with me, Alexia Leachman. Fear Free Childbirth is the online destination for women seeking to take the fear out of pregnancy, birth and beyond with fear clearance, meditations, self healing products and courses, professional training and specialist programs for overcoming tokophobia. And if you’ve enjoyed this episode, then check out the Fear Free Childbirth Mama Ship. It’s a bit like Netflix where you can binge on a boatload. More Fear Free Childbirth content to inspire you on the journey to motherhood and beyond. More interviews, more birth stories? More expert wisdom? Visit fearfreechildbirth.com to find out more.

Welcome to another episode of Fear Free Childbirth podcast, where we delve into the incredible realm of childbirth and explore unconventional yet empowering practices. In this episode, I am ed by special guest Sophie Messager, a doula who has integrated drumming into her work with expecting mothers. Together, we explore the profound effects of drumming during pregnancy and birth, while highlighting the lost wisdom of traditional women’s practices. Drumming during Pregnancy and Birth We touch upon several thought-provoking topics and intriguing questions related to drumming for pregnancy and birth. 1. Uncovering the Healing Power: Sophie emphasises the importance of healing oneself before guiding others on their journey. By attuning to their own energetic patterns and addressing any emotional blocks, practitioners can hold space more effectively and transmit the transformational power of their method. 2. Training and Specialisation: Our discussion sheds light on the availability of training options for practitioners interested in incorporating drumming into their work. From practitioner and professional levels to specialised training for pregnancy and birth, individuals can explore these avenues to deepen their understanding and skills. 3. Science Meets Tradition: Our conversation touches upon the scientific validation of non-scientific practices like Reiki and the need to bridge traditional wisdom with modern science, bringing together the best of both worlds. This holistic approach offers a comprehensive understanding of the profound effects drumming can have on the mind, body, and spirit. Some of the key questions we explore include: How does the use of drumming in pregnancy and birth align with traditional women’s wisdom and cultural practices? In what ways can drumming women in feeling empowered and relaxed during childbirth? How can drumming be adapted to meet the needs and preferences of each individual woman? How could Sophie’s book contribute to the existing literature on childbirth practices? How does drumming affect the brain and fascias, and what other potential benefits might it have for the body? How can holistic approaches, like drumming, contribute to this healing process? How can we promote a more positive and empowering perspective on menopause in our communities? How could drumming positively impact young girls’ experiences of developing womanhood? How can we advocate for a more holistic approach to health, especially in the context of childbirth? Is there a correlation between drumming and labour induction? How might we further explore this connection? This episode takes us on a captivating journey into the ancient wisdom of drumming and its transformative power during pregnancy and birth. We shed light on the forgotten practices of women’s wisdom, emphasising the significance of creating safe and ive spaces for birthing individuals. As we explore the profound connection between science and tradition, may we embrace the healing potential of drumming and empower expecting mothers to embark on their birth journeys fearlessly. Resources mentioned during the episode Throughout the episode, we mention several resources that can provide in-depth information and insights into the practice of drumming for pregnancy and birth. Here are some valuable resources to get you started: 1. Fearless Birthing Professional Training for doulas, midwives and birth professionals: For detailed information on the training programmes for learning Alexia’s fear clearance method – Head Trash Clearance – visit the Fearless Birthing website. www.fearless-birthing/training 2. Head Trash Clearance: If you’re a therapist or coach who works outside of the pregnancy and birth world, and you would like to find out more about the Head Trash Clearance method and the various training opportunities. 3. Corine Sombrun’s Research: Corine Sombrun,, a French researcher who has extensively studied the effects of drumming on the brain and psychiatric pathology. Investigate her work to gain a deeper understanding of the neurological aspects of drumming. Episode Timestamps 00:02:26 Personal healing and using drumming in pregnancy. 00:07:10 20 years as biology research scientist and 17 years as a mother. Changed career to teach about birth and energy work. Experienced imposter syndrome. Reignited interest in drumming. 00:12:43 Reiki drum training leads to unexpected drumming practice. 00:21:30 Drumming for birth, lost wisdom revived. 00:28:48 Drumming reduces anxiety, depression, and pain. 00:32:05 Drumming impacts brain, body, and cultural memory. 00:42:01 Gentle drumming better during pregnancy and postpartum. 00:45:56 Alternative healing methods provide effective . 00:53:50 Rest and listen to your body’s needs. 01:00:37 Powerful drumming rituals celebrate womanhood and transitions. 01:05:19 Drumming, podcast, fear-free childbirth, mama ship. Episode Guest With over two decades of dedicated research into reproductive physiology and the profound journey of childbirth, Sophie Messager has discovered her calling to provide unwavering to expectant families and to train birth professionals. With more than a decade of experience in development, Sophie has assisted and trained numerous families and birthworkers, leaving an indelible mark on their journeys. Armed with a PhD in Physiology of Reproduction and a DiPhe in antenatal education, Sophie’s expertise shines through her book “Why Postnatal Recovery Matters.” Beyond academia, she is a Reiki, Reiki Drum, and Drum Healing practitioner and teacher, weaving a tapestry that seamlessly blends scientific knowledge with spirituality and time-honoured rituals. Sophie’s ion lies in resurrecting forgotten perinatal rituals and harmonizing them with contemporary practices. Rooting her practice in the elements, Sophie finds solace and inspiration through nature walks, year-round river swims, shamanic drumming, and the expressive movements of 5 rhythms dancing. As a guide on spiritual quests through life’s transitions and rites of age, she nurtures souls and reveres the profound spiritual essence residing within each individual. Explore Sophie’s insights and offerings on her website: https://sophiemessager.com/. Connect with her on social media: – Instagram: @sophie_messager – Sophie Messager on other platforms For those seeking to embark on transformative journeys, Sophie’s online courses are a gateway to enriching experiences: https://sophiemessager.com/online-courses/. Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:01]: You’re listening to the Fear Free childbirth podcast with me, Alexia Leachman. Let me help you to take the fear out of pregnancy, birth and beyond with a mix of real life stories and experts sharing their wisdom. I’ll also be sharing psychology insights to help you to cultivate a fearless mindset, be inspired and be empowered with Fear Free Childbirth. And now it’s time for the show. Hello, and welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. My name is Alexa Leachman. Thank you so much for ing me today. On today’s show, we’re going to be talking about drumming. Yes, drumming in pregnancy and childbirth. Now, the thing about drumming is it’s something that we’ve been doing for millennia and it’s one of those things that we get drawn to because it just feels so tribal and so it just connects to a part of ourselves that is deep within all of us. And one thing that maybe a lot of you didn’t realise was that drumming could really help you as part of your pregnancy and your birth experience. It’s been shown to reduce pain, which I think is going to be something at the top of everybody’s list. So today I’m going to be chatting all about how you can use drumming as part of your pregnancy and birth experiences. And I’m going to be chatting to Sophie all about that. Sophie is a doula, and she’s been introducing drumming within the pregnancy journey with her clients, but also outside of that for herself. And she’s been getting enormous benefits for her and her clients around it. And that’s what she’s going to be sharing with us today. But before we hand over to that chat I had with Sophie, I’ve got a couple of updates I want to share with you. Now, if you’re interested in learning my Fear Clearance method, perhaps you want to learn it to use with your clients. Maybe you’re a therapist or a birth professional or a coach, anyone, really, that wants to help bring about change in people, whether that’s reducing their fears, their anxieties, their stresses to improve their focus, or their mental fitness. Head Trash clearance can be used for all of those things. So if you’re interested in training and learning this method so that you can use this with your clients to get incredible and fast results, then listen up, because I’m going to be opening up training in September. So I just want to share with you what that training looks like, because it’s like no other. Let me tell you that an important part of all the training that we do at Head Trash is to ensure that everybody walks the talk. And that means that if you’re going to help other people to bring about change and you’re going to help others. To heal, then you need to have done a lot of that yourself. And so the first part of our training is about healing you, your stresses, your fears, your anxieties, yep, that’s it. The first part of it is all about you. And it’s all about you learning how to use the method on healing yourself. So that by the time you reach the halfway through the training, you are a different person already. You’ve had an opportunity to really dig deep and uncover some of your deepest wounds and heal them. And then once you’ve done that, you’re able to then start learning how to apply what you’ve learned on yourself to work with others. And this healing that you do on yourself means that you are better able to hold space for your clients. It means that you’re better able to be present with them and really tune in to what it is that they bring to you when they work with you. The great thing about doing this personal work is that you’re really able to experience the true transformational power of using Head trash clearance because you’ve witnessed it and experienced it yourself. Which means you’re much better able to communicate that to the clients and the people that want to work with you. And the transformations really are incredibly potent and can come about very, very fast indeed and can often achieve results that maybe have eluded you before. In the past, there are many women that I’ve worked with, therapists that have come to me for help and , that have experienced the level of transformation that they simply haven’t witnessed anywhere else. And they’ve thought, hang on a minute, this is incredible. I’ve been seeking this kind of transformation for me, for myself, and I haven’t been able to do that with everything that I’ve trained. I need to learn this so that I can bring this into my client session, so that they can experience this level of transformation. So if you would like to bring about this kind of rapid transformation in the emotional wellbeing of your clients, then perhaps this is the training for you. There are two levels that you can train at, whether you want to do practitioner level or professional level. And you can also have training that’s specifically for the pregnancy and birth journey, which means you can then start working with women to help them overcome their tocophobia. And believe me, we need more people out there to women to help them to overcome their tocophobia. But if your work isn’t in the realm of pregnancy and birth and perhaps you work beyond that in a more general way, then we also have training that’s not specifically birth or pregnancy related. So if you’re interested in finding out more about the training that opens up in September, then you can head over to the Fearless Birthing website to find out more about pregnancy focused work. And there’s a training badge there, you can check out the training there or head over to Headtrashclearance.com where you can see the practitioner training over on that website. And as I said, I’ll be opening up the training in September. It’s a three month course that includes lots of online content as well as live classes and, of course, personal clearance homework. And you absolutely have to get this personal clearance homework done, and you only progress to the next levels of the training once you’ve done it and your work has been assessed. That’s how seriously we take our work at Head Trash. So if you’re interested in taking part in any of those trainings, then do head over to either fearlessbirthing.com or headtrashclearance.com back to today’s show. As I mentioned, right at the beginning, I said I was going to be chatting to Sophie. Sophie Messager is a doula. She also trains in Robozo and she s women through their postpartum, having written a book on postpartum recovery, which gets amazing reviews, by the way, and you should really check out that book. And so today, Sophie is ing me to talk about drumming and using drumming within the pregnancy journey and the birth journey. And she’s currently writing a book about drumming in pregnancy because apparently there isn’t one. And obviously, if there isn’t one, then she needs to be the one that writes it. So I know that she’s doing lots of research behind the scenes to find whatever information is available and to bring it all to readers in the book that she’s writing. Now, I know that drumming might sound surprising and a surprising thing that you might want to incorporate into your pregnancy journey, but please do hold that thought and just listen to what she has to say because it is pretty compelling. Okay, I’ll hand over to the time that I spoke to Sophie all ing drumming as part of the pregnancy and birth journey. Hello, Sophie. Welcome to the podcast. Sophie [00:06:39]: Hi, Alexia. Thank you for having me. Alexia [00:06:41]: So we’ve spoken before on the podcast, but today we’re going to be talking about drumming around birth and drumming during pregnancy. And I’m fascinated by this subject because I’m very much aware of the healing power of sound and frequency, and our frequency is so important on the healing journey. You’ve recently started drumming, so I really just want to start from the very top of this story. How did you get into it and what’s your journey been and what have you learned along the way? But before we do all that, just give us a little bit of an intro to you, Sophie, and where you’re coming from, what your background is. Sophie [00:07:10]: I was a biology research scientist for 20 years. I worked on chronobiology, the genes that control our internal rhythms. And then I went to work for biotech industry for a few years, and I went back to academia after. Anyway, I spent 20 years doing biology research, and then when I had my first child, I went from a place of being so my first child is 17. I went from a place of being really scared of births, to hiring a doula, to going to some really quiet alternative classes. And just that led me to a very positive birth experience. And that completely changed my career because I thought, I want to do the same thing that was done for me, which is how people go from fear to an empowering experience. I fell into the whole birth world. I started training to be an alternative teacher. So I went and got a diploma for your education in alternative education. I started teaching alternative classes. I trained to be a doula. I trained to be a baby wearing instructor. And I did all these things for five, six years mostly working with families. And then what happened is I organically fell into teaching birth professionals. Because people ask me the interesting thing is, about six weeks ago I got diagnosed with ADHD. And there’s a lot of things that make sense all my life. And one of the superpowers of ADHD is hyper focus, the ability to get really sucked in really deep into little rabbit holes. And that was what I’ve always done all my life. Which meant, whether I was a scientist or went to any field, usually within two or three years, I would be considered a name in my field because I’m so obsessive about learning. And I can also have a very bird’s eye view. I make, I think I make thread between things. So I’m like, well, yeah, but there’s a link between this and there’s a link between that. When it comes naturally to you, you don’t stop and think there’s a big deal, right? That thing that people said, how do you do all these things? I don’t know. It just is. So this obsessive grasping of things and making especially the link between the science and the esoteric, that’s what I became known for. And of course, people then said, can you teach us? And sort of fell into mostly working with professionals from about six, seven years ago, still working with families, but it almost took like a secondary seat. And what I love the most is bringing back traditional knowledge that’s been lost together with modern science, together. Alongside this journey of teaching professional, I also, being at birth, reignited a desire, had to work with energy, because you can’t be in the birth room and not feel the enormity of what’s happening in the room energetically. So I had already trained in being a Reiki practitioner in 2003, so way before I did all my doula work and birth work. But the being at birth as a doula reignited that big time. So I took Reiki and Reiki master in the same year in 2015. And then what happened is, ten years ago in my first year as a doula, I went to a retreat and I was exposed to a drumming workshop. There was a drumming workshop as part of the retreat. And I thinking, well, that’s not going to work. In fact, I thinking, that’s bullshit. And we did a drum journey, it did something really quite phenomenal to my brain. I’m not normally a visual person, but I had these really vivid visions in that drum journey and I was now, I just opening my eyes thinking that was something else. And so it made me want to have a drum because I was such like, oh, my God, I want to get more of that in my life, and went back to on holiday. My mum gave me an Irish born that they’d bought on a trip to Ireland. I brought that back on the plane and the rest is history. Almost two stages. What’s really interesting is I started with a lot of impostor syndrome around this. All my life I’ve had imposter syndrome whenever I tried something new. Not so much now, because I’ve kind of started to learn to work with that, thinking, well, you do something new, you’re going to feel you’re not that competent and that’s quite normal. But holding that and not feeling like I’m not good enough at it is normally an issue for me. But the drumming, I came back with this drum from and my brother is a professional musician and he had showed me that the boron you play with this little stick, right? You have a tiny little stick. You’re supposed to play in a really fancy way with your fingers, and I couldn’t do that. And I came back to Cambridge with my drum, went to see my friend Peter, who is a shaman and makes drums. And I said to him, Peter, I can’t play this drum using this little stick. And he said, Well, Sophie, what is it you want to do with this drum? Do you want to play in an Irish band? No, I want to do some Shermanic drumming. He said, Honey, you do not need to learn to play with and so. He showed me how to make a soft bitter with felt and the rest just went home with that and spent about three or four years just self teaching myself to intuitively do it, which I think was a really important part for me. Sometimes your self exploration, even though it might be slower, it’s actually more powerful in of learning to trust yourself, but also learning to do what’s right for you than going immediately to learn from someone. We live in a culture where unless you have a piece of paper to prove that you’ve trained to do this, it’s not seen as valid. So I spent about three to four years just doing it on my own. And eventually in 2017, I took Reiki Drum practitioner Training, where you learn to channel reiki through the drum. Alexia [00:12:40]: Wow, that sounds like a really niche reiki. Sophie [00:12:43]: And then I then took the Reiki Drum Teacher Training in 2020, literally two weeks before the first lockdown. So what’s really interesting is that sometimes you sign up for something because you think you’re going to do X, Y and Z with it. But actually, what happened is a completely different thing. So that’s what happened to me with that. I never ended up teaching Reiki drum as such. It just gave me something that meant my drumming suddenly became very present in my life. I started running a drum circle in two months before the lockdown, so I ran it twice. It was surprisingly popular. I thought I was just going to get four or five friends who already had the drums, but I got 15 women of, I think, only one or two at the drums by then. I’d acquired quite a large collection of drum. I made two, I’ve made three. Now, as you can see, this big drum here behind me, I made it on Sunday, like, really three days ago, and I’m not yet able to play it because it needs time to try. I just started doing the drum circles, I do them online. And what happened is, in 2020, I turned 50 and I vetted a few women and I said, I’d like to start my birthday 2020. We couldn’t get anybody across to do big parties. There were still really heavy restrictions on how many people you could gather with. And I decided to start the day drumming and I invited women to come and me and two of them ed me. And what this turned into is we’ve been drumming weekly in the woods at dawn every week for three years, just the three of us. We don’t want to invite right from very early on, early on, it became clear we didn’t want to include other people. It’s our practice, it’s something we do for ourselves. It’s a really deeply spiritual practice. We set an altar, we set intentions, we drum and then we open sacred space. We close sacred space and then after we’ve done our drumming, we bring hot drinks in a flask and we have a bit of therapy, almost talking about our lives. And I just never imagined that that would happen. Do you see what I mean? And I need to backtrack a little bit. So what happened is, very early on, I started offering drumming to my clients as part of healing, and especially as part of a postnatal massage I give called Closing The Bones. And in the early years of my practice, I shied away from really being quite open and blatant with my drumming because I felt some people saying, oh, it’s too woo. So I gave women the choice and a lot of them would say, I don’t want any of that hippie shit, I just want the massage. But then I realised, when I started learning about the science of drumming and what it does to the brain, especially because what we know through recording with electrodes on the head, is that when you do this kind of repetitive heartbeat, like drumming at a certain speed, is that the brainwaves change to a really deep, relaxed state. Like a bit like that state you’re in when you’re in between sleep and being awake. But actually it can go even deeper in what’s actually akin to being asleep, but you’re still awake, so it slows your brainwaves down. And I thought when I then birthed my second drum, because we call it birthing a drum when we make a drum, really. I spent two days in a retreat making a drum with a really famous British spiritual practitioner and musician called Galilee Hillier. And it was a really powerful experience. And after that, I thought, I really need to just give people the same chance I had to not have this misguided belief that this is just some kind of nice woo thing or woo thing that they don’t relate to. I just thought, I’m going to drum at the end of the massage and tell people this is what I do, this is part of the massage. Because I thought need to give people that experience of what it feels like. And because by then I trained to do Reiki drum. Reiki drum is done over the body, so the vibrations go through the body. I started giving everybody ten minutes of drumming at the end of the massage when they were all wrapped up. And the stories that people told me is like really quite again threads. Very interesting. People say, I felt like all my ancestors were there. I felt like I was in a temple. I felt like I was back in India. I felt like I was here, there and there. And people often talked about the feeling, the vibration to their bodies and how powerful that was. Because my experience with doing reiki drum is the vibration makes the reiki faster than if you just use your hand because it button shake, the whole thing. When I did, for instance, my Reiki drum teacher training, I had to do 24 case studies. And one of those case studies had a problem with a tightening of one part of the body, like the shoulder area that this woman said. Every time I see and do  an astaire bath, it gets nice and loose, and then the next day it’s back to being rock hard. And when I drummed over that part of her body, the drum had no sound. It’s like it wasn’t there. I was like and she was a sound healer. And she said, yeah, when I do use my voice for sound healing, I’ve seen the same thing happen. It just doesn’t sound. As I drummed and drummed and drummed, eventually the sound came and she said she felt like she’d been at the Osteopath. And over the course of the four weekly session we did, she got to a place of releasing her body that she’d never been able to be. Because also my intuition guided me to ask her a specific question about what might have happened to her that caused this. And when I, one day, sometimes I get this kind of . I just spoke this and said, did you have that this and that happen to you? And she said yes. And then she said she felt the whole tension go. There’s been some pretty powerful stuff happening with that. I would say since 2017. I’ve always integrated that in my postpartum massage practice, but I’ve always also given a lot of healing to pregnant women. And then what happened is I then started offering it to birth and I think the first time I drummed at a birth was probably in 2019, because at first, you know, this kind of thing back when I started doing Reiki. So I get backtracking a little bit. So when I started doing Reiki in 2015, I had this huge quandary, thinking, oh my God. I mean, Cambridge, most people hire me because they say, we picked you because of your PhD. You’re not a hippie. Control your face. And I was almost ashamed of my energy healing process because I thought, these people are going to be put off by that and then coach I worked with… challenged me to come out. And so then I started sharing a lot more about this. And the response I got from people was really quite amazing, because they all said most people said, oh, my God, thank you so much. I feel the same. Almost like I’m ashamed of my spiritual energy, woo, non scientific stuff. Except it’s not true. There is science in it. We live in a world that likes to box things, either science or woo. People often say to me, how come you do reiki even though you’ve got a PhD? And I’m like, because I can. I don’t even feel the need to justify it. So the first time I drummed at a birth, it was at a home birth, and it just felt like the most natural thing in the world. And the woman I drummed for was becoming really good friends since said to me, oh, my God, it was amazing. She only felt like drumming when she started to push. And then she said the minute she started drumming it really, really hard. She said, Why didn’t you do it before? And I’m like, she didn’t feel like it was needed. So one of the things people have asked me often is what’s the right rhythm and what’s the right time to drum at birth? There’s no such thing. It’s completely intuitive. So I’ve seen women who only like drumming during their pregnancy, seen women who only like drumming during their early stage of labour, seen women who only like drumming during pushing and vice versa. So that is I have had a client who the first time I drummed in a hospital, we drummed during some part of the first stage of labour. And then when she started to push, I picked my drum, thinking she could do with the . And she said, no, just put it down and she said it just wasn’t right at that time. So the stories I picked up with that is that it’s no prescriptive ways of doing it, no right time, which is really empowering for people if they want to learn, because it’s a bit like when I teach Rebozo massage and people said, how long and how fast should I rock? And I’m like, you asked her what she wants. The woman is the one who gets to tell you, what’s the right thing? So it’s the same here. You try and you trust your intuition, and if the person doesn’t like it, they’ll tell you. But it’s really quite fascinating how much we live in a culture that thinks. When people have asked me, oh, do you do a particular rhythm? No, I don’t. I know that, generally speaking, the rhythms that are very slow tend to be more, like, calming and faster, tend to be more invigorating, but also the type of bits that tend to change the brain pattern. They’re actually quite speedy. They’re actually 180 to 220 beats per minute.  Alexia [00:21:30]: Oh, wow. That is fast. Sophie [00:21:30]: Yeah. Rather than just the thing that’s really quite exciting. So I have been communicating online for the last few weeks with an Australian midwife called Jane Hardwick Collins, because she’s the only person I found online who’s written about drumming for birth and drumming during pregnancy. She’s just got one blog post. I emailed her and, you know, you got anything more in your books about that? She said, no, that’s the longest I’ve written about the subject and I can’t really find anybody else who’s really no books, no articles, apart from that one blog post. And she does quote in an article, a book I have here, which is called ‘When The Drummers Were Women’ by Layne Redmond. It’s a scholar’s book. It’s about the history of drumming and the fact that the drummers were the servants of the goddess. But it talks on three, you can see I’ve marked three different parts of the book about people drumming to speed up childbirth, about women drumming to speed up knowing which rhythm helped contract the womb faster. So that’s the only historical thing I found. But literally, there’s three sentences in the entire book. I’ve flicked through the whole book trying to find stuff. My gut feeling is this was a thing. Like many of those traditional women, wisdom things were just gone and they were ed from women to women orally. So there’s talk written about it, as I’m sure you know, what tended to be written about in the past was more men stuff, but I’m sure that was a thing. And it has been lost because there’s been all the burning of witches and all the losing of traditional goddess practice and traditional things that wise women used to just do. So for me, it’s part of bringing back drumming for childbirth is not something new. For me, it’s just bringing back a lost skill since what’s happened to me over the last few weeks is that it’s really made itself very present in my life because I signed up to do the course. A four day women drum circle facilitated our training, where I made the egg shaped drum I’ve just showed you after I signed up to that, then also signed up to give a talk about the science of drumming at a convention of women drummers in November in the UK. That’s organised by Melonie Syrret, who I did a training with. She calls herself the Drum Woman. And then the real thing that really blew my mind because it was so unexpected is the editor of the International Journal of Birth and Parent Education emailed me to say, we’re doing a special edition on complementary therapies for births and we’d like you to write an article about drumming for birth. That really blew my mind because I thought when I got the email, they’re going to ask me to write about rebozo or something like that, but not write about drumming. I was like, that’s really unusual, because, like I said, there’s no scientific papers. I’ve not found any there’s a lot of scientific papers about the effect of drumming on the mind and body and I can go into that in a minute. That request of this article led me to start creating a lot of really deeply pointed questions. I wrote ten interview questions and I went to the women and drummed at their birth and tried to cast my net as wide as possible and asked, does anybody want to share what the experience was like? And as I started interviewing my clients, it was really interesting. The stuff they shared, I didn’t even know about. So just to tell you a few tidbits, one of my clients said, at home, I didn’t really feel I needed drumming because I felt I was in my power. But when we went to the hospital, suddenly I felt really at the mercy of the hospital. I felt vulnerable. And when you started drumming it, she said it felt like when you put on power of music when you’re jogging. Yeah. She said it reminded me of my power and of just trusting and relaxing and letting go. I didn’t know it had done that to her. Alexia [00:25:15]: Amazing. Sophie [00:25:15]: I knew she’d enjoyed the drumming, but I never asked those really deep, pointed questions. When I started interviewing people, they all said the same thing and I was like, wow, this is big. I had a friend who said she tried to drum herself during her labour and she had to stop because it made the contraction so powerful she couldn’t cope. Alexia [00:25:31]: I was going to ask you whether you’re always one drumming or do the women drum for themselves as well? Sophie [00:25:36]: From what I’ve found, it sounds like it wouldn’t be a good idea for the woman to drum for herself, maybe in very early labour or certainly during the. Pregnancy and during the postpartum as a practice. Because what I find it does is it really allows you to almost if you’ve got something that makes you scared or anxious or anything that bothers you or a problem in your life, when you drum, it’s almost like it’s allowing you to move to the side and look at it. It makes that thing that where we know it changes your brainwaves. I’ve had drum journals done for me by other people in the past to find the answer to a problem. It comes so fast. I said, it’s like having a massage in your brain. You know, you’ve got stiff muscles and you’re uncomfortable very well, but your brain is full of patterns, right. This whole idea that neurons that fire together, wire together, you’re unknown to yourself, locked into some kind of way of thinking. The drumming changes, it’s like it’s giving you a fresh path. So suddenly you start to look at things from a really different angle. So, yeah, drumming in pregnancy for yourself, definitively. I’ve interviewed a woman during those four days training who said she did that and it was really powerful. Alexia [00:26:51]: And I wonder as well, the impact of the sound and the frequency on water. We know when we think about what’s that word is, it I can’t think of now where you can see the patterns within water of certain frequencies when you think about how much we are water and then I’m just thinking about the amniotic sac and the baby and what impact this is going to be having on the baby as well. That must be just bathing in this incredible frequency that just must be so potent. Have you got any insight as to what’s going on with the baby? Sophie [00:27:20]: I mean, the women who have drummed out their pregnancy, they say they feel the baby really likes it. The baby usually often becomes very active, right? Report that they feel that the baby enjoys it. The baby enjoys it but if you go from the premise that we’re all made of vibration exactly. Alexia [00:27:39]: I mean, it makes so much sense. Sophie [00:27:41]: We are made of water, but we’re just made of particles and vibration and we know that. What always amazes me is people are quick to dismiss drumming because they don’t understand the science, but they believe in your dress sound, right? You treat people with your tress sound, right? You treat muscle injuries with your tressound and of course you use a tres to look at a baby. And it’s the same technology, but because it comes with the sort of aura of modernism, it’s the same thing. If you believe in a dress sound, you believe in drumming. It’s a different frequency, obviously, but it’s a different tool. And it’s in a white clinical thing, fancy machine that goes ping. Yeah. Alexia [00:28:20]: Not with a woman in the flowing dress and a crazy drum look like this. You really need to make your drums more clinical looking. Sophie yeah, that’s where you’re going wrong. So let’s talk about the science then briefly. Like what is the science around? I mean, there’s a lot of science around frequency and the healing power of sound. So if anybody’s listening that doesn’t know about that, then I would encourage you to go and go and seek some of that out. But specifically around drumming, what is there, what do we know that drumming can do? Sophie [00:28:48]: For me, the first thing that comes to mind is the change in your brainwaves relaxed meditation thing. But what comes hand in hand with that is that it does calm the nervous system down. There’s published research that shows all this brainwave change, but there’s published research that shows it decreases anxiety, decreases depression, increases feelings of well being, improves cardiovascular health, improves your immunity, decreases pain. So the vibration themselves have been shown to decrease pain, but drumming has been shown to increase endorphin release. And then if you think about the context of giving birth, it’s going to hit three things. It’s going to help facilitate that process of going into a trance like state, because birth is a trancelike state if it’s let to be doing its own thing and not interfered by the system. We all know that women go into this like labour land when the end of fins take over and the cortex kind of gets switched off. So it’s going to help that Translite process and it’s going to help with the comfort of the contraction and it’s going to give a focus point as well. Jane Hardwick’s Collins online article about drumming for a busy woman who said the minute the person started drumming over a sacrum, it made her contractions painless. And, and that other thing that my clients have said is it felt like there was something that was holding them, reminding them of their power, reminding them to relax. But it’s not a figure of speech because like I said, there’s really cool research showing that and also it provides a sense of community. So there’s people who’ve done drumming stuff for healing people from trauma, drumming stuff for healing people from addiction. So it’s more than just what’s really difficult is I’ve not been able to discriminate what part of it is a vibration, what part of it is a sound, what part of it is Alexia [00:30:36]: That was my next question. I’m wondering. Part of me is like, well, I just want to get a recording, play it nice and loud in the room. But actually you think about the difference between just putting something on earbuds and for the woman to be hearing that. So at least it gives us that mental focus. But then her body was exposed to the sound waves like it would with somebody actually drumming next to her. But then if she did play that through big speakers, would she still get some of that? Or is it really like where does the sound end and the frequency, where does all the vibration you know how. Sophie [00:31:07]: You can do remote healing on somebody? She said you can do remote drumming on someone, can you? But of course, it’s going to be more powerful if you are actually present in the room and you have all three, the sound, the vibration and the presence of someone who’s drumming holding the space for you. Because I think the difficulty with the whole thing is we can’t discriminate. There’s no studies that’s been done that goes, like you say, just looking at the effects of the sound without the vibration, without the wave. So all of it is part of the process package. Alexia [00:31:42]: Yeah. And when you were talking about how, just hearing the drumming, and I’ve had some really powerful drumming experiences and yeah, the minute the drums start, it just feels so tribal. It just awakens something really deep within us that you just know that we’ve been doing this forever and that we’ve got ancestral memories and inner knowledge.  Sophie [00:32:05]: It is part of every culture. It still is part of many cultures, but I believe it was part, this book when the women were drummers. She goes scholarly through every single histories that she can find, and it’s everywhere. Supposed to be the oldest instrument known to man, so it’s not like an alternative third word fad. For me, when I started reading around it, I was like, wow. What’s not normal is not doing it. Yeah, it was what we know is that the process of introducing patriarchy and removing all the priestess of the goddess who were the ones who were drumming, because this book makes a case, it was women who drum, not men. Those drums were destroyed. And one of the persons I love a lot in this whole drumming thing, Not for burst, but the science of drumming is a French woman called Corine Sombrun, and she was initiated as a shaman, trained for nine years, with Mongolian shamans being the first white person to become a Mongolian shaman because she was recognised as one and she went into a trance. So she went to do a documentary on Mongolian Sherman. She went back and created a trans science research institute. There’s a lot of really really cool research that’s being done on understanding what it does to the brain, what the trance. She’s created a sound loop, so it’s reproducible what the trance does to the brain, et cetera, and what it does to psychiatric pathology. She has a story in one of her books where she cured this guy of paralysis. He had cancer in his pelvis, he couldn’t move and she made him go into a trance and that restored mobility to his pelvis. And within a few weeks, he was walking around again. There are videos on YouTube showing what the guy’s pelvis is doing and he’s a guy who is paralyzed. And, you know, it’s really quite amazing. But what you know is that stuff you’re talking about, feeling like you listen to the drumming, feeling like you’re tribal. Feeling like I think it’s part of our DNA memory. And it’s really sad that we’ve lost that. And that in our culture, it’s become something that’s seen only as outside of our culture as in some weird shit that doesn’t belong. And I found that I do several practices as well as drumming, I do a form of conscious dancing called five rhythms. And I love singing, so I also sing whilst I drum, which, again, I think was really part of it. And it occurred to me a couple of years ago that singing, drumming and dancing are part of every culture. But in the Western world, what’s really sad is it’s seen as only something special people can do. The COVID People feel very shy and self conscious about singing or dancing and drumming, but they think, oh, I’m not good enough, I don’t know how to sing, I don’t know how to drum. Last night I was running a webinar on drumming for birth and people were saying, oh, what kind of rhythm do you use? And I said it’s completely intuitive. You don’t have a set rhythm, you just start and you feel into it. And the impression I often have, for instance, when I do healings with the drum, but the same happened during birth, is that the drum drums me so I may drum over somebody’s body, for instance, for the purpose of healing. And when I reach a certain part of the body, the sound changes, the speed of the sound changes, the rhythm changes, and I’m not making that happen consciously, it’s like it’s responding to what’s going on. And sometimes I’ve been drumming really loud and really fast and not understanding what happened. And then suddenly moving to another part of the body just becomes really slow, really soft, and it’s a bit like when you touch someone, you massage someone you’re going to try to meet where they’re at. It feels like it’s the same thing. You don’t want to go. Some people like to be massaged really like a flourage, very gently, and you need to do that for them to relax, because if you’re going like that, they’re going to go and tighten even more. But it’s the same with vibration of the drums, since they actually do work on what state the body’s in, what vibratory state the body is in. What I wonder, for instance, if the drumming has a big effect, but has not been studied on fascia, because fascia is cognitive tissue that’s around and inside your muscles. And what I know from talking to my osteopath about that is that fascia, when it’s in its healthy state, is soft and pliable, but when it’s tight, it’s become like really crunchy, he says, a bit like a chamois leather you’ve left in the sun. The healthy fascia should be like a wet chamois leather. Hard, crunchy fascia is a tight fascia. It just feels crunchy under your fingers. And I think it’s very possible that the drumming, I mean, I’m sure it acts on many layers on the body, but that it acts on that connective tissue specifically because my osteopaths told me that when the fascia is healthy, it becomes absorbent of water, but when it’s tight, it repels water. That’s why it becomes crunchy. Yeah. Alexia [00:37:25]: And so it sounds like when you’re in that you’re intuitively drumming, that you’re almost just a channel for whatever that body, that person needs in that moment. Sophie [00:37:33]: And being able to trust that is very important, because at first you’re going to think, oh, that’s why am I doing it? Right? Who am I to do this? This is some weird thing, because when I first drummed that at a birth in the hospital, I feeling really conscious of the discomfort of the midwife and purposefully not making eye . And I’m always fascinated by the fact that people are not curious when they meet something that they feel, this is weird, I’ve not heard that before, seen that before. What’s that got to do about and not asking questions? And then the last person I drummed out in the delivery unit, I felt, because by then, I’d been drumming actively, constantly, for two years. So I just got my drum out and I didn’t even worry about it. I felt completely normal. I thought if the midwife is like the old thought that entered my head was like, if the midwife is uncomfortable, that’s none of my business. Alexia [00:38:31]: So, yeah, I was going to ask you about the hospital environment, whether or not when you’re drumming, is it loud? Are there going to be other people outside complaining about it? What happens? Sophie [00:38:40]: When I drum that home? It doesn’t matter, usually. And when I drum in the birth center, the birth center in Cambridge is a really big room and the building is only ten years old and it’s pretty well insulated, sound wise, from one room to the other. But the delivery unit is a building that was built in, like, the 1980s and it’s pretty crap sound insulation. And luckily, when I drummed that bus, we were in the pool room, which is a bit away from the others, but I started drumming. Somebody knocked on the door and I thought, oh, God, somebody’s going to come. Here we go, can you stop that racket? But no, it was just completely not relevant to what was happening. Midwife coming to ask a question to the midwife, I don’t drum very loud in the context of birth. Alexia [00:39:23]: I’m wondering the lady that the mum also, that she might be thinking, if she’s not able to fully let go, she might be thinking, oh, hang on, we’re going to disturb other people. Some women struggle to even make noises during birth and they’re worried about how that’s going to come across and disturbing others and offending whatever that’s going on in their mind. Sophie [00:39:42]: But again, it’s always approved with complete consent. So the people who have wanted drumming at their birth sometimes have been hired for that. As a doula woman said to me, I want someone to drum at my birth. I was like, woohoo. Bucket list. It was the first time I drummed in the hospital. So the women would choose to have that or when I offer it to them, if somebody said, I’m not comfortable with that, of course I’m not going to do it. So it’s never been an issue in that respect. It doesn’t sound like those frame drums that I use, like the one I was showing you earlier. They’re not loud, the way that say African style drum. Because one of the things I’ve been discovering reading some stuff online is that they were African style drums that they traditionally used to communicate from one village to the other because they’re pretty loud. You know those drums that shape like. Alexia [00:40:38]: Yeah, like a tall drum that’s almost about like I’ve got a drum that reaches up to my breath. Sophie [00:40:45]: And they are a lot louder usually because there’s a resonance of the entire yeah, the type of drum they use, which is known as a frame drum. It’s not very deep at all. When you’re going to start making sound with it, unless you start to beat really hard, it’s not very loud, no. Alexia [00:41:09]: Does it not get a little bit crazy? Like when you kind of get carried like just get really into it. Does it not kind of get quite intense? Sophie [00:41:17]: It can get quite intense. Interestingly, I’ve not been in a situation where it got really intense at birth. Alexia [00:41:23]: Even when it’s fast, it still stays quite quiet. Does it all I mean, in my mind, because I’ve been to kind of like I’ve had lots of drumming experiences and I used to play Capoeira, which is Brazilian martial arts, drumming and rhythm and it’s all very not party vibes, but it’s a samba, it’s loud, the drummers are there kind of thing. So in my head I’m equating when it gets really fast and the pace is there, there’s a lot of excitement and energy and volume. I guess I’m just wondering whether there can be this fast pace but also quiet. Whether there is, I don’t know. Does that work? Sophie [00:42:01]: So far, when I’ve drummed around the pregnancy and birth and postpartum Johnny, I’ve not found myself drumming very loud or very vigorously. I’m going to make an analogy, like for now, when I massage a new mother, I’m usually really, really, really soft because there’s a feeling that the body is usually really tender. You can’t just go in like being vigorous. It needs to work yourself in really gently and maybe build from one massage to the other. Whereas when I massage somebody who’s not postpartum and I feel they can take it sometimes I’m really deep. The time I’ve done very vigorous drumming, it’s usually been someone who’s not in the first pregnancy and postpartum johnny right. There’s a sense that this needs to be heard with tenderness. However, you don’t know, there might be people who drum very vigorously around that period, but especially thinking about with the baby in mind, feeling the vibration in the anointed food and all that again and the very exquisite sense of hearing and feeling a vibration in the baby. It feels like it needs to be gentle. Yeah, but that’s just been my experience. There might be people that have been curious to hear if anybody’s ever had. Really strong Alexia [00:43:21]: And what about around fertility? I mean, I just wonder whether or not there’s maybe those that might be struggling with fertility, whether the drumming can bring their body to align things again to maybe facilitate fertility, is there any… Sophie [00:43:32]: For me when I talk about the birth journey, I talk about the whole thing from conception, but I also talk about birthing outside of giving birth to a child, birthing project, birthing yourself, all of that kind of. And also I see drumming as a transition . So when you know that sound healing can be a powerful way to shift stuck energy in the body. You can easily imagine that, say drumming over somebody’s body, especially drumming over the pelvis and the reproductive organ, that might help. And I also found that it’s not uncommon for people to have big emotional releases during those types of healings, great big subs and stuff like that. And it makes sense if there’s something that’s being held in the body. Alexia [00:44:22]: So I’m thinking that our wombs probably carry a lot of trauma. We hold a lot there, whether it’s our own from maybe miscarriages or anything that’s happened to us in our own life, but also ancestrally that our mothers would have carried that we’ve just brought down that maternal line. But there’s a lot of stuff that’s just being held within our womb space that potentially could be getting in the way of fertility. And I’m just imagining that the drumming can just be such a powerful healing force just for women anyway, just to kind of let go of maybe some of this trauma that’s just locked in our bodies, locked in the womb space, totally. Is anything like that happening? I mean, I don’t know. Do you do anything on that level? Sophie [00:45:05]: I’ve done drumming as part, so I’ve done quite a lot of closing the bone rituals for women post loss because I’ve got a history of recurrent miscarriage and ing people through that, giving their body a healing after the loss of any stage of pregnancy has always felt really important to me. I’ve got anecdotal evidence so I can’t tell away from the drumming to the massage or the energy holding that the ceremony provided, but I’ve got quite a lot of anecdotal evidence of people successfully conceiving after that. But not like I said, it’s anecdotal, but I’ve had women who had recurrent miscarriage. I doing a healing on someone who’d lost twins recently and a year later I got a text saying she’d just given birth to a healthy baby boy. Alexia [00:45:54]: Amazing. Sophie [00:45:56]: Like I said, enough recurrent anecdotal evidence of that going to go there’s something there. The way I always approach things is I discuss things with people who are having issues like that and I go, well, you could try that or that or that or that and people will automatically choose what they feel more drawn to. I don’t push from healing or these types of ceremonies that I do onto someone where I sense it’s not their cup of tea because I think it works on every level. A bit like throwing a dart on the dartboard. Sometimes you hit bullseye but you’re going to hit anywhere on the dartboard that’s going to have some kind of impact on the whole system. So sometimes it’s like really effective, really fast and sometimes it’s more subtle, but it’s still going to participate in the process of because the Western approach is very looking at the anatomy of things, looking at your hormones, looking at your tubes and if you find nothing wrong with those things, you’re left with what? Because I believe about 50% or more is unexplained infertility and when we start looking at the more holistic approach of things and giving people a chance to explore that if indeed there is trauma or energetic blockage that lodged in there doing energy work stuff, including the vibration of the drum. But it’s not just that, it’s a bit like what I was saying earlier. How do you discriminate between the sound and the vibration and the holding space? When I do a healing or a session for someone around that, there’s a lot more that happens. It’s about the person being held in kindness and and giving space to so often, for instance, with closing the bone massage, I will have a debrief session first, give the women a chance to really talk about if there is trauma, what happened and how they felt and process that and then do the healing behind it. Because I think all of these things need to be expressed. Sometimes people don’t even know, sometimes I’ve said, and how did that make you feel? And the person’s just burst into tears because nobody else asked them the question. The whole thing, all that matters is a healthy baby. Or being dismissive of the fact that the grief that people may experience because they can’t conceive of the grief people may experience because they’ve lost a baby at six weeks. All of that in our culture is not seen as valid, right? The grief of women may experience, a friend of mine just this morning was sharing a grief at the end of a breastfeeding journey. It’s very valid. All this in the grief of women who have not been able to breastfeed for sorts of reasons. So there’s all this kind of stuff that’s not, that’s part of our journey and are not usually held with kindness and held with the spaciousness, the space holding of being witnessed beside trying to necessarily fix you see what I mean? Just holding what is because I believe that people can heal themselves but it’s just that that’s not part of our culture, right? People think the doctor heals you. Like, I telling my kids when they were younger, I was like, when you graze your knee the other day, who made the scab? The doctor? But that’s the culture we live in. So it’s much easier to heal with somebody who’s holding the journey for you because I think we’re meant to heal the last half, but I don’t think we’re meant to be doing it alone. And again, the whole I do it myself, I don’t need anyone, it’s a trauma response, the whole being independent at all costs. Alexia [00:49:46]: And I wonder as well, for a lot of trauma that may be difficult for people to sort of tackle, maybe head on in of talking about it, ing it or just processing it in a kind of very conscious way. But doing that through drumming or coming in almost like through the back door is almost a really gentle way of healing trauma because it enables them to really kind of have a purge process. The emotions allow that to come out without necessarily it coming through the conscious mind, which might then prepare them for a more head on approach, processing it, talking about it in a more real way and just takes the edge off it. I don’t know. What do you think? Do you think that can kind of help people, maybe have something that maybe is so strong that they can’t get a lot of people that have heard just I can’t talk about it, I don’t want to think about it, I don’t want to, they just block it out. It’s a complete block out. Whereas if you come at it physically through something like drumming that you can kind of release some of that and then, oh, now I’ve got the strength to maybe deal with this. Sophie [00:50:44]: And again, I think it’s really important to be respecting consent there because I think if people said I don’t want to talk about it, then they don’t want to talk about it. Certainly I’m a big proponent, believer of the fact that trauma is held in the body and that the Western approach of just doing talking therapies only is not enough. The talking therapies can be powerful, but only doing the mind, only doing the talking, I think it just doesn’t get at the root,  doesn’t go far enough. Yeah, it’s not for no reason that shaman’s world around, use drumming to help people enter a trance-like state and then go and find out for them in the spirit world what was going on and come back with some kind of guidance and answers and stuff. And also the other thing I do is when I do healing for people using my drum, sometimes I get whether it’s drum or reiki or books, I usually mix all of it. Now I often get guidance of stuff that sometimes is very clear. It’s not in the person’s best interest to hear that right now what’s happened to them. Sometimes I just speak like a very strong example, for instance, is a friend of mine who’s now expecting his first child in a few weeks. When we first met, he said, my second chakra is blocked. And I don’t know how it came out of my it was one of those s. And I said, your second chakra is blocked because you’re not sure whether you want a child or not. And the minute I spoke these words, he said it unblocked.  Alexia [00:52:19]: Yeah. Awareness is a huge thing, though. The minute you kind of hit upon that realisation about what it is that awareness alone can unlock, can heal. Sophie [00:52:28]: Like the story I was telling about the woman who had the drum healing over several sessions, that was really fascinating to me. Another story, for instance, that talks about a menstrual cycle was one of my case studies. It had something I’d never come across, a period so heavy that she was losing between a pint and 700 mils of blood every time she had her periods. Alexia [00:52:48]: Oh my God. Sophie [00:52:48]: And so she was having to go to the hospital every six weeks to have an iron infusion. And when she’d gone it was a woman in her early forties. And when she’d gone to the doctors, all they offered her was a Hysterectomy. And she said, I don’t want that. And I said, Well, I think you’re very wise because right now, whatever it is that’s happening is at least coming out. But if you remove uterus, whatever it is that’s causing that, it’s still going to be there. It’s not going to have a way to come out. And so as we did the session week for week, and I started asking more questions, and I said, how does it feel to you? Because usually what I did find out is that people who have such heavy bleeds is usually people who give to others all the time. They over giving and not giving enough, like not having enough boundaries for themselves and not being able to keep the energy. So they’re literally leaking their lifeblood. I mean, 700 miles, I was like 90 miles is considered a heavy period, and the aver

In this week’s episode, Alexia chats to Ramona, who shares her powerful story of triumphing over tokophobia and body dysmorphia to embrace and enjoy pregnancy. Throughout our conversation, Ramona imparts wisdom on communicating with healthcare providers, finding the right , and illuminating challenging experiences. She candidly shares her transformation from body dysmorphia to embracing pregnancy joyfully, revealing how her perspective changed with the help of a personal trainer and a comprehensive program of healing and self-care. Conquering Tokophobia & Body Dysmorphia: Ramona’s Story Ramona’s journey traces a path to acceptance and empowerment, from initial anxiety about her pregnancy to a resolute decision to embrace it. We explore how her past experiences parallel her approach to pregnancy and childbirth, as she confronts longstanding fears and anxieties head-on. Here are just some of the questions we explore in this episode How did Ramona’s initial doubts about the effectiveness of mantras change over time? Did her open-mindedness play a role in their transformation? What were some of her previous attempts to improve her sleep and why did she find the mantras to be more effective? In what ways did her trauma therapy, combined with the use of mantras, contribute to her transformative journey? How does she experience with CBT for anxiety disorders and phobias compare to their belief in the need for body therapy to rewire the brain and body’s response to fear? What are some additional therapies that she recommends for addressing phobias and anxiety disorders, and why does she find them effective? What steps did she take to prepare for childbirth and ensure a positive experience despite her tokophobia? Why does she emphasise the importance of talking to someone about fears and traumatic experiences, and what role does validation and play in this process? How can societal expectations around pregnancy and parenthood contribute to feelings of loneliness and isolation? What strategies did she suggest to overcome these challenges? How did her work with a therapist and personal trainer impact her body image and relationship with her own body during pregnancy? Reflecting on her journey, what role did research, online communities, and exposure to positive birth stories have in her transformation and acceptance of pregnancy?   Resources mentioned during the episode In this episode, several resources were mentioned: 1. Fearless Birthing Online course: provides information and related to perinatal mental health and overcoming their phobia of childbirth. 2. ive community: online groups, including Facebook groups (Tokophobia Network), where Ramona engaged with others who shared their experiences and struggles. 3. Instagram page: “Pain Free Birth,” which provided valuable insights and positive birth stories. 4. Perinatal therapist: helps navigate fears and anxiety related to pregnancy and childbirth. 5. Tokophobia Program: My most popular one-to-one program for those wanting in overcoming tokophobia 6. Research: focusing on alternative modalities to treat their specific condition and seeking recommendations from perinatal therapists. Episode Timestamps 00:01:52 “Anxiety about pregnancy leads to self-discovery.” 00:11:15 Therapist researches perinatal mental health treatment options. 00:16:50 Delay, avoidance, immersion, fitness, pregnancy, commitment 00:22:30 Changed routines and mantras helped me sleep. 00:26:37 Traumatic experience with puberty and menstruation. 00:32:01 Overcoming body image issues and embracing pregnancy. 00:37:36 Prepared, educated woman takes control of birth. 00:40:56 Talk to someone, don’t be lonely. 00:45:39 CBT has its place, but needs body therapy for phobias. 00:47:54 Energy psychology technique offers fast relief for women. Conquering Tokophobia & Body Dysmorphia: Ramona’s Story – Episode Transcript Alexia [00:00:01]: You’re listening to the Fear Free Childbirth podcast with me, Alexia Leachman. Let me help you to take the fear out of pregnancy, birth, and beyond with a mix of real life stories and experts sharing their wisdom. I’ll also be sharing psychology insights to help you to cultivate a fearless mindset, be inspired, and be empowered with Fear Free childbirth. And now it’s time for the show. Hello, and welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth Podcast. My name is Alexia Leachman. Thank you so much for ing me today. On today’s podcast, I’m going to be chatting to Ramona, and she’s going to be sharing her story in overcoming tokophobia. Ramona is currently pregnant, and she’s due later this year, and she’s going to be sharing her experience of going from experiencing panic attacks, being on meds because she can’t sleep, to now being a glowing, insta mummy who is adoring being pregnant and is looking forward to her birth. Hello, Ramona. Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing? Ramona [00:00:57]: Good. Thank you for having me, Alexia. I appreciate it. Alexia [00:01:00]: Do you mind just giving us a little bit of an intro so that we know a little bit more about Ramona, what you do, what your life’s about? Ramona [00:01:07]: Yeah. Yes. So I’m Ramona. I live in Minnesota in the United States. I’m married. I currently have a large fur child, great Dane mix dog. He’s like my current baby. Currently waiting on first baby to come in September. I’m a mental health therapist by day. I’m actually a trained social worker, but went into the clinical field doing mental health therapy. I’ve been doing that for, like, ten years, and I specialise in treating PTSD. Alexia [00:01:47]: So let’s go to the beginning of this story, then. Where does this story begin for you? Ramona [00:01:52]: Yeah, I would say the beginning of my story is probably after I got married. I think probably in between. So I got married at 26. We had kind of always talked about waiting to have children. Not having children was never part of the conversation because I never thought of myself not having kids. But I always was weirded out by it. I was like, oh, yeah, that’s cool. But why do people think birth is beautiful? It’s disgusting. That’s not beautiful. There’s nothing beautiful about that. So I always kind of had that, but I just thought it was like I was grossed out by it, like, normal, because I think a lot of people would say, like, yeah, it’s kind of gross. There’s a lot of things involved and whatever. So we had agreed to wait for a while before having kids. Like, we wanted to travel, and we just wanted to kind of relax, and we were in no hurry to have children, which was awesome. We were both on the same page, and I think that somewhere along the line, I had sort of put this number out there that I would have kids when I was 30, and I don’t know why I did that. I think it was like a I was trying to hoard off family that start asking you immediately after you get married, like, when are you having kids? Right? That’s the next progression of things. So I think I said that to maybe try to shut people up a little bit. But also I was like, well, that seems like a good age. We can have fun. The rest of our seems like a great age to start a family. So for some reason, this number was in my head, and it wasn’t until my 30th birthday something snapped. And if you know me, I am a birthday queen. I love my birthday. I make a huge deal out of my birthday. I have a birthday month. And I really fell into this weird place. I was dreading my 30th birthday. I couldn’t figure out why. And then after I fell into this really weird, just anxiety spiral, and it was obviously because I’d put this number out there. So my family is like, okay, your 30th birthday, you’re going to get pregnant, right? And I was like, oh, no. What have I done? And so that’s when it really kind of started to spiral, and I started to second guess whether I wanted children. And that was kind of my first clue. I didn’t know it at the time, but I was like, I don’t know if I want kids. I think that I’ve been lying to people. I think I lied to my husband, and I felt bad for him because that was never part of the conversation. It was like, we’re going to wait, but we both know that we want them. And so I was kind of like you where I felt like I was going absolutely insane, and I was like, there’s something wrong, but I don’t know what it is. I have panic attacks when I think about having kids. I have panic attacks when I think about getting pregnant. I’m in this serious anxiety, and I don’t know where it’s coming from. And that was probably a good two years that went on. And in between that, it was like, my husband would kind of check in and say, like, oh, do we want to start having children? And I would be like, don’t even talk to me. I don’t want to have this conversation. No, we’re not going to start having children. I’m not ready. I’m not ready. I’m not ready. Luckily, I have a very ive husband, and he wouldn’t push, and he would just say, like, okay, that’s fine. He’s like, I’m in no hurry either. I’m just checking in. I think where he became concerned and where I became concerned was when I finally said, what if I can’t do this? Or what if I don’t want this? Does that mean we need to get divorced? Do you absolutely want children? Is that a deal breaker? And that’s kind of where things started to kind of bubble to the surface was like, there’s something off here. And it kind of came out of the blue for him, too. And he’s like, what is going on? There’s something else underneath. And it wasn’t until I actually got into therapy, so I started therapy for just different reasons. I’m a therapist myself. I was in a horrible job where I was working with kids that had really intense trauma, and I was feeling traumatised by the work I was doing. So it was like I needed somebody to help me with my burnout, my comion fatigue, but I also had a lot of other things going on with body image. So my body image stuff really came to the surface, too. That’s always been an issue, but it really spiked. And I think that was probably my way of controlling the pregnancy stuff. When I look back at it, I think I put my anxiety into my weight and my body and how it looked, and I started to try to control that. So I was kind of, like, there for my job, but I was also like, okay, I’ve always had these body image issues. They’re really starting to spike. I need to work on this, and I have some other I would just like to have less anxiety. Like, I have anxiety. I would like to have less of it. And it wasn’t until my therapist started kind of bringing up we kind of just through conversation started kind of talking about kids and where I saw my relationship. And obviously, like, the pregnancy conversation comes up when you’re talking about body image. And I just kind of started to talk to her about all of these things that had been happening that I really a couldn’t talk to anybody about because I didn’t know how to talk about it. Because when you say that you’re scared of pregnancy, everybody says, oh, I was too. It’s normal. And I was so sick of trying to explain, no, I’m not just scared of it. I will try to avoid this like the plague. I am doing everything I can to not do this. I am not normal scared. I am, like, having panic attacks at the thought of being pregnant scared. I’m like, you’re not having panic attacks. This is not the same. But it was just really like, people just don’t get it, and they just kind of think you’re crazy or they really invalidate what you’re saying. And I think it’s because they don’t get it either. And so I kind of started really voicing all of these things to her, and she was like, there’s something here. She just is a fantastic therapist. And she just was like, there’s just something here. This is almost like you’re reaching, like, a phobia level when you talk to me. It’s like somebody who’s scared of public speaking or somebody who’s scared of snakes. You are getting to this level of almost phobia levels of where I could almost look and try to diagnose something going on here. If she didn’t know something, she was going to figure it out. And she started researching, and she’s literally the one who found this and comes to me and says, I’ve figured this out. And I’m like, what do you mean you’ve figured this out? And she tells me that there’s an actual condition and that it is an actual phobia, and it exists, but nobody knows about it. And I’m just like, I can’t even tell you in that moment how I almost feel like that cleared some of my talk phobia right there. It was like this weight was lifted, and I was like, I am not crazy. I’m not crazy. I’m not weird. There is a name for this. I knew this wasn’t normal. I knew that there was something wrong with my thought process about this, and it was such a relief to get that news and that information, and that’s literally how I found you. She, through her research, found all these resources, and you were one of them. And then I kind of just started researching myself, and I dove in headfirst, and I started reading everything that I could and educating myself about what was going on. Alexia [00:10:44]: So you started researching. And so whereabouts in this journey? Where are we on this journey? Ramona [00:10:50]: Yeah. I would say, yeah, I was probably 33. Like, at this point, we’re probably a year out from me getting pregnant. Alexia [00:10:58]: When you found out that it had a name, did you think, okay, I can sort this out. This is great. Now I know it’s got a name. I just need to do Bish Bash Bosch, and then I’ll be fine? Or did you then go, oh, okay, I know what it’s called, but now what did you do with that information once you found out it had a name? Ramona [00:11:15]: Yeah, so I, being a therapist myself, kind of basically dove in, and I was like, okay, I need to treat this. I’m going to figure out how to treat this. So a lot of my research was my therapist and I were both doing our own research outside of session, and we were kind of coming together, kind of as therapists together, and being like, okay, what did you read that you found is helpful for this? What did you read that you found is not helpful? And the interesting thing is, it’s really hard to find any information that’s helpful because this is not widely known, and it is something that nobody even knows exists. Right. So basically, we were kind of centering our search around the perinatal mental health world. So we were looking at perinatal therapists, like, people who specialise in working with pregnant women, women who are experiencing infertility women who have experienced infant loss, traumatic births. We were really centering our search kind of around that area and basically kind of boiled it down to a couple of different modalities that were recommended, which I disagree with both of them. I’m just going to throw that out there. It really was like CBT, which anybody in the therapy world is always going to say, CBT. People are going to say, oh, CBT can help that because CBT is the old fashioned way of therapy. It’s what we’ve been doing for years and years and years, and it does not work for everything. And I feel like it’s a very general version of therapy that is applied to lots of different situations. And sometimes it works really well and sometimes it doesn’t. And exposure, which exposure therapy is basically like exposing yourself to what you’re scared of so much that you’re not scared of it anymore. My therapist brain is like, how am I going to expose myself to something I haven’t done yet, and I’m not going to be exposed to until I do it right? I interviewed a couple of different therapists that were perinatal therapists. They specialise in this. And I kind of asked them, what would your approach be? And a lot of them were like, I’m going to use exposure therapy. Here’s how we would go about it. And I just like, in my soul as a therapist, I do very specific trauma work that is a version of exposure, but it is a very gentle version of exposure and is very trauma informed. I have a soapbox about exposure therapy, and I won’t go there, but I have a soapbox about it and I don’t love it as a modality. So I got really hesitant and my soul and my body was just like, no, I don’t feel like this is right for me. I feel like exposing myself to the negatives or potentially exposing myself to something is going to traumatise me more. And I just felt that. So basically I started with you, and I started with an Instagram page that I found, pain Free Birth. It’s amazing. So I started with you and I started kind of looking through your material. I ed a couple of Facebook groups, so I kind of started searching Facebook and I would just type in, like, Tokophobia. And I ended up finding this really wonderful online group on Facebook. And those were kind of my three places. And in between that, I kind of told my therapist, I’m going to go here. So basically I was kind of like, I’m either going to try to find a therapist or I’m going to spend my money elsewhere on other resources like your class, pain Free birth classes. I’m going to spend my money somewhere and I need to decide where to spend it. And so I decided not to pursue therapy since the answers I was getting, I was not liking. I didn’t feel like exposure therapy was going to be good for me. And so I basically decided to sign up for your course. And I started there. And I kind of started just taking classes and I worked through it really slow at my own pace while exposing myself to very positive birth stories. So Pain Free Birth is all about very positive birth stories. She highlights just the most beautiful empowering birth stories. And she really talks about how to empower yourself in this process. And the group was so helpful to just say, like, I’m feeling like this. Does anybody else experience this? Can anybody else relate to this? And you would get so many people that would say, yes, I can. And then you would have conversations with those people. We’d be in messenger, we’d be talking. And so that general from other people who understood was essential. So those were kind of my areas that I started dipping my toes in. Alexia [00:16:43]: Did you sign up and then find out you were pregnant? What was that? Or did you know you’re pregnant and then sign up? Ramona [00:16:50]: What was the order of yeah, so I signed up. Did not start the program right away. I kind of had like a few months where I really kind of just lagged. It was summer. Also, I think was a little bit of an excuse to avoid not going to lie, so I will say there was a little bit of avoidance, but there was also just like I was like, I need time to really immerse myself in this. I don’t want to start this and do it half assed. I really want to dive in and do this. So I think I started your courses, like, maybe in the fall. I had also started working with a personal trainer and doing some really good work on my body image, how I looked at food. So I really was kind of immersing myself in this fitness journey that was not just a fitness journey, but recognising I need a better relationship with food and I need a better relationship with how I’m treating my body while I’m working out. And I also kind of started your courses at the same time. So it was kind of this like I don’t know, I don’t know what it was, but it was like I turned 34 and I was like, here’s what we’re doing. September is my time. Like a new leaf. So started in the fall and then I found out I was pregnant early January. And so I was through your course and had worked through your course before we actively started trying to get pregnant. And that’s kind of what got me in a place where I was like, okay, maybe this will go okay. Alexia [00:18:32]: Then you booked in for your call because I think when we first started working together, you were about seven weeks pregnant, is that right? Ramona [00:18:39]: Yes. So I very quickly panicked when I found out I was pregnant. I very quickly went down. Alexia [00:18:48]: I was going to ask you when that news landed, when you realised you were pregnant, what was that? Ramona [00:18:52]: Like, it was a rough like, I would say, found out I was pregnant immediately was like, this was stupid. I regret this. I take it back. Every single anxiety, fear, panic that I could possibly have bubbled up in the biggest way possible. And I spent probably the first five weeks pretty much every day panicking about something, having anxiety attacks, having meltdowns. To my husband very seriously contemplating terminating the pregnancy. I was just like, I need to make a decision here. I need to make it soon. And so through his and then through kind of my own thought process, I’m like, you know what? No, I just felt like that wasn’t right for me. I figured going through something like that was going to traumatise me more. I’m like, I know myself, if I make that decision, I’m not going to come out of that well. So I was like, I have to go through with this, so what am I going to do about it? So I scheduled calls with you. That was kind of my, like, I went through your course, and I hadn’t scheduled my calls yet, and that was sort of my cue. Like, you need to schedule your calls with Alexia now. And then I also, at the same time, got in with a perinatal therapist and started working with her. So basically just loaded myself up with between the two of you. And then I was in that online group probably every day. Like, here’s what’s happening today, and got so much from that group, too. Alexia [00:20:55]: My recollection of your journey was that things started shifting quite quickly for you. Ramona [00:21:00]: Yes. Alexia [00:21:01]: So just talk us through because we worked together, what, four weeks. Talk us through the beginning of that journey for you and how you started changing, how you’re feeling, the shifts that you’re experiencing. Ramona [00:21:17]: Definitely the fear clearance is that you taught me right off the bat. I did not hesitate to dive into them, and I think that’s kind of important. If you really do want to get on the other side of this. It’s a lot of work, and it’s really intense work, but also if you put your mind to it and you actually dive in and you commit, you can actually get over it pretty quick if you really want to. So I dove into the fear clearances that we were doing, and at the time, I had been not sleeping, so I was taking medication to sleep at night because I was so anxious and I had so much going on that I was not sleeping. And what queued me in to because at first I was like, this is kind of weird. Like, I’m sitting here, and I’ve got my hands on my face, and I’ve got my hand on my back of my head, and I’m just, like, repeating mantras. Alexia [00:22:27]: Yeah, you’re describing the headshot clearance method. Ramona [00:22:30]: Yes. And I’m like, this can’t work. I can’t just sit here and talk to myself. So I was a little bit but I was like, no, you need to be open minded. And my first clue that something had changed was I would do them before bed and got into this routine of doing them at night before I went to sleep. And within the first, like, six or seven mantras, I would start yawning. And then as I would go through them, I would get more tired and more tired and more tired. And by the end of this mantra, which probably took me 5 minutes, maybe ten, but I would say between five and ten, they didn’t take very long. I was exhausted, like, felt wiped out, and I slept. I started sleeping, and I was not taking medication, and I was sleeping, and I was sleeping through the night. And I’m like, okay, something’s happening here. My body’s releasing something because this is outrageous. And I had been working with my therapist on different things, like, different things to help me sleep, relaxation techniques, all these things, but it was like something’s happening because I’m sleeping and I’m tired. And I mean, I would shut my laptop and I was out and I would sleep through the night. And so it was not I mean, that was after, I would say maybe night three of doing those, I started sleeping. And then I think it was probably like I did them consistently every single day while we were meeting. And it was probably like, I don’t know, like our third call maybe or something where I was talking to you and you were like, that’s an interesting change in language. What’s that about? And I’m like, I don’t know, I’m feeling kind of good. And I just thought it was because I was finally sleeping, but no, it was because I actually was really kind of working on bringing all these things to the surface. And I think it wasn’t only the fear clearances, but it was like, forcing myself to think about these things and talk about them. Because I think that especially in my work as a therapist, I do trauma work. And so people come into my office and they have been not talking about or thinking about this thing for a very long time because they’re like, no, it’s going to be too hard, it’s going to be whatever. But internally it’s causing all of this chaos. You’re not avoiding it. Your body is telling you the story every single day, but you think by not talking about it or by not thinking about it, you’re helping yourself. And I think just even making myself think about those things, and you making me make a list of all the things that freaked me out, from the tiniest little things to the biggest little things. I was like, just recognising some of those fears. Honestly, I let them go. And I didn’t even have to do the clearances because I just was like, I acknowledged it. I’m like, yes, I acknowledge that I’m terrified of this. And then it would just kind of clear itself. And in combination with my therapist too, I’m doing kind of the same therapy with her that I do in my own practice. So I was actively also working on this trauma therapy with her where I was clearing a lot of fears and doing a lot of work around phobia and anxiety. So those two things together were huge. Alexia [00:26:24]: And we hit upon an interesting trauma that I picked up on where I felt there’s a parallel between the pregnancy and the body image stuff. Do you want to share what that was? Ramona [00:26:37]: Yeah. So as we were talking, we were kind of talking through kind of a lot of the physical aspects of birth and pregnancy and what those things are that trigger me the most. And you kind of made this connection, and you asked me how I felt about puberty, and I was like, I hated it. I was terrified. All my friends were like, I can’t wait to get my period right. Like like, it’s like this female, like, rite of age thing. And they talk about it, and they’re like, why don’t I have my period yet? Why don’t I have my period yet? Like everybody else has theirs. Why don’t I have mine? I was a late bloomer. I didn’t get it till I was 16. And I was like, this is great. You all have to deal with this, and I don’t, and I hope I never have to. And so there was also this avoidance of that and that process. And when we were talking through it and you asked me what it was like when I got my period, I was like I literally woke up that morning, realised what was happening, and I actually ed out. I literally was on the toilet, and I fainted in the bathroom, and I was home alone, but I ed out. And to this day, I didn’t know why I had that reaction. And it wasn’t like a sight of blood thing. It was just like, that’s how my body responded to that moment. It was, like, total over while I’m total shutdown. And I kind of felt stupid. I’m like, okay, I do this every single day. I work with people all the time that have these traumatic experiences, and here I am. I think that might have been kind of a traumatic experience for me, and I would have never placed my finger on that. That was something that had really kind of shifted things for me in of how I thought about my body and what my body functions. That’s a very normal thing. And that was something that was anticipated. It was something that I had a lot of knowledge about. It was something that we got talked, school talked to us about it. My mom talked to me about it. I had all this knowledge and I knew it was coming, but when it happened, it was like total loss of control. And that’s kind of where it stems back to, is like, I have always had a huge need for control in my life, and that has driven most things I have done, and it has driven most of the decisions that I have made up until this point, 34 years. I have made most decisions out of fear, like avoiding something I’m scared of because of loss of control. And in that moment, that was like, this is something I can’t control, this is happening to me and this is something that I would rather not have to deal with, but I don’t have a choice because it’s my biology, right? So that was like a pretty big shift into why I also was looking at pregnancy and birth in the same way. Because I’m like, it’s something that happens to me, it’s something that I cannot control and it’s something that there’s going to be a lot of changes, like physical body changes. So that was a huge piece of information that I was missing. Alexia [00:30:32]: So then you went to clear that trauma. Was that with your trauma therapist? Ramona [00:30:36]: I did. Alexia [00:30:36]: Would it be fair to say that once that trauma was out way, it was kind of downhill from there on? Ramona [00:30:43]: Honestly? Yeah, the session that I had, so you gave me a trauma clearance on it, which I did, and then I brought it to my therapist and I said, oh my gosh, I literally made this huge realisation. And she was like, all right, that’s our next thing. So in our next session, we did a session on that where we used the protocol that we used to clear the trauma. And that was honestly a huge catalyst. Everything from there got so much easier and most of the things that I thought that I needed to work through, I was able to just be like, no, that’s good. Don’t have to work through that. No, that’s good. It cleared so many different things. Alexia [00:31:29]: For many people, there is always going to be there’s a trauma at the root of it. It’s just kind of discovering what it is. Once you clear that one, everything just collapses because everything’s just like a mobile on the ceiling. Once you pull the main one down, all the other stuff pulls down with it. After that, it sounds like your body image issues that you had kind of went with it. Is that fair to say? Because then I I joking with you, I said, you’re going to win those Insta mummies showing off a bump every week on Insta. Totally am. Ramona [00:32:01]: Yeah, it’s crazy. I did do another session with my therapist on just general body dysmorphia, body image. And I worked through a lot of those experiences throughout my life. Just as a female. As a female in society, we get lots of messages from lots. Of different places that we’re not good enough unless we look like a certain person. And I worked through a lot of those, just a lot of dating relationships that were really unhealthy or the way that I looked at my body my whole life that I was comparing to other people, and it was never good enough. And so I did a lot of that work as well, alongside of this with her. And that’s been, like, crazy. And along with my personal trainer, too, she has worked so hard with me on using exercise as honoring your body and seeing it as a way to move your body. And she’s taught me how to eat to fuel my body. There’s no bad food. And it’s like all of those things were things that I had struggled with, where it was like I was restricting. I had certain foods that I didn’t eat. And all of that altogether has just really doing all of that work side by side with each other has made a huge difference. And if you would have told me a, that I’d ever get pregnant, that was like something I didn’t think would ever happen, but B, that I would enjoy the process and that I would be purposely wanting to wear tight fitting dresses because I think I look cute, I would have been like, this was so far from my brain. My husband said this weekend, we had our baby shower this weekend, and we were talking after the baby shower at night before we went to bed, and we were just, like, reveling in how loved we felt. And he’s like, you’ve turned into one of those cute pregnant girls. And I’m like, what does that mean? And he’s like, well, you were just so worried. You were so worried about what you were going to look like and how this was going to impact your body. And he’s like, you’re just walking around here, like, taking pictures with your belly hanging out. He’s like, you’ve just turned into one of those cute pregnant girls. And I’m like, I guess, yeah. Alexia [00:34:43]: So at what point in that journey, then, do you feel that you actually overcame tokophobia? Was there a point where you think, yeah, this is it, this is behind me, I’ve done it. Ramona [00:34:52]: Yeah. I would not classify my fears that I have now. I would not classify them as tokophobia. I would classify them as like, I’ve never been through this, and I don’t know what it’s going to be like. Very normal, those normal fears that anybody has when you haven’t been through something and you’re wondering what it’s going to be like on the other side, it’s just very normal. Like, I’m worried about the baby’s health. I’m worried about my health. I’m worried about my birth process and wanting it to go as well as it can so that we both are very healthy and we both are very happy at the end of it. And it’s none of that I would classify as tokophobia fears. It’s just like very general. Like, okay, I just want this to go as smoothly as it can and I just want everything to work out the way that it’s supposed to. Alexia [00:35:51]: When you think about birth now, which is what like three months away ish for you, how do you feel about that? Ramona [00:35:57]: I really feel like honestly, when I think about it, I’m like, I’m going to do that. I don’t know how it’s going to play out and I don’t have all the answers. I have an idea of what I want it to look like. I have this ideal birth and it is very peaceful and it’s at the birth center and it’s very calm and there’s a lot of people around me. And I’ve visualised this birth, I’m manifesting this birth. But I also have this message of learning how to really hold that very loosely and knowing that I’m going to rely on people and trust people around me, that if something needs to happen that I don’t particularly want, that that’s something that is being told to me because it’s in my best interest. So I feel very confident in myself, I feel very confident in my partner, but I also feel very confident in my team. And so that’s kind of the word that comes to mind when I think about birth. It’s just like there’s this level of confidence that I would have never thought that I would get there. Alexia [00:37:14]: And it sounds like you’ve got like you’ve invested in this pregnancy journey quite significantly from the sound of it, in of probably money that you spent on professionals, but also the time, the inner work you’ve done, the fitness work you’ve done, the nutrition. I mean, it sounds like this has been a real like it sounds like you’ve really taken this incredibly seriously, which is brilliant. Ramona [00:37:36]: I have, yeah. And a lot of my midwives are pretty impressed. Like the first midwife I met because when I did my intake with the birth center, I kind of told them I have this tokophobia now I tell the whole world about it. No one’s getting away from me without hearing about target phobia. I feel kind of bad. But my intake at the birth center, I’m like, I have this phobia. You need to be very aware of this. You’re going to have to change the way that you treat me and speak to me because of this. And there’s going to be things that I’m not going to be okay with that other people might be. And so the midwife came in at my first appointment and she was approaching me kind of cautiously and she just listened and she kind of took everything in. And at that point I had already had a doula, found my doula. I was already signed up for my childbirth education courses, which I’m doing through pain free birth. I basically had all my ducks. I was talking about how I was working with you. I had all my ducks around. And she goes, wow, I have never seen somebody this prepared. You really know what? And I’m like it’s because this is what’s helping me. What’s helping me is knowing what I’m getting into, making sure I have and educating myself like crazy. There is no stone unturned here. So, yeah, I am taking control of this because it’s my birth and I’m the only one who’s going to do it. Nobody else is going to take control of this for me. So I’m going to jump in and I’m going to do it, and I’m going to make it the best experience I can in case I ever want to do it again. If I ever want to do it again. I would like this to be a very positive experience and not something that I’m dreading in the future. Alexia [00:39:31]: I mean, everything you’ve just said is just music to my ears because I just wish that because it is such an important event in a woman’s life, this transition from becoming a mother is a real moment. And I think by preparing in the way that you have and that lots of other women do as well, means that they’re just stacking the odds in their favor that they’re going to come out with a positive experience, and let’s not be around. A positive experience is going to live with you till the day you die. And equally, a negative one does too. So, hey, let’s make this a good one. Ramona [00:40:05]: Exactly. Alexia [00:40:06]: This is great for everybody. If it is a good one, and you’ve like, okay, I’ve got this. I’m going to get everybody I need. I’m going to get my . You’ve just done it and it’s brilliant. I love it. I just love hearing everything that you’ve done. And actually, you’ve invested in all that and it’s paid off. And look at you now. You’re feeling fabulous about what’s coming, and you’ve overcome a really bad phobia that a lot of people really struggle with. I mean, no one’s heard about it. And yes, it does affect anything between 15 and 30% of women, so it’s not insignificant, right? So for those women that are listening that do suffer from tokophobia, with your experience, the journey you’ve been through, and also with the insight that you have as a therapist, what would your advice to them be? Ramona [00:40:56]: I would say definitely talk to somebody. I don’t care who it is. If it’s a trusted friend, if it’s your spouse, if it’s your therapist, and even if you don’t know how to describe what’s happening or you don’t have the right words, you feel like you don’t have the right words. Just try your best to go to somebody who you know will validate you and you 100% and just say, this is what’s going on. And I don’t think this is normal. I think that this is above the level of anxiety that I should have about this and let that person help you, guide you, or just talking about it sometimes can just help you, motivate you to say, like, what do I want to do about this? Or Maybe I need to learn more about this myself. I always tell people I work with the monsters in the dark. Look a whole lot less scary when you open the door and you turn the light on. And I think that’s a huge part of this is I think it’s so lonely that’s the biggest thing I can is just like, it feels so lonely because you don’t know what’s going on because you’ve never heard of this, and everyone that you talk to tells you the same thing, oh, that’s normal. And once you have that baby, it does, nothing matters. And it’s like, okay, but I don’t even want to go through the process of getting the baby. That’s what you don’t understand, right? So you hear the same thing, and you kind of start to feel outside of it. You kind of start to feel like, I’m a female, but I don’t fit in with any females. I’m not a part of my own gender, my own people, my own whatever word you want to use, because I don’t feel the same way about this experience that you do. And so just don’t be lonely. Don’t sit with it, and don’t let it eat you up from the inside. Talk to somebody. Ask for help, research, do whatever you can to just shed some light on it because it will get a whole lot easier once you actually know what it is and you can ask for the right . Alexia [00:43:29]: And do you think it’s important that people find people who get it and know it? Do you think that it’s important for them to find somebody that understands the condition and therefore finds maybe specialises in it or has got insight into it, or what’s your view on that? Ramona [00:43:46]: Yeah, I do think that it’s hugely beneficial. Like the group that I ed on Facebook. It’s called tokophobia Network. So that group was so helpful because it was validation for the first time. So it was like, no one’s going to call you crazy. No one’s going to tell you that it’s normal and everybody goes through it. So yes, that’s a huge component. I also think that if you can’t find that, if you’re struggling to find that, and if you can’t find somebody who relates, there’s nothing wrong with going to somebody and just saying, like, I need some help researching, or I need some help finding somebody. And if you go to a professional and they write you off, find a new one. That’s the biggest thing. I think there’s so many people, especially in my work as a therapist, I’ve seen so many people that have come to see me that have had bad experiences in therapy and they stuck with it because they just felt trapped, or they felt like they couldn’t ask for a new therapist, or they felt like they couldn’t. If anybody, if you go to a professional and they are not willing to sit with you and beside you and do the work with you, then they are not worth your time and they are not worth your money, and you should be out of their office so fast and you should be finding someone different. Alexia [00:45:16]: Earlier you mentioned that exposure therapy and CBT wasn’t really techniques that you really wanted to pursue for yourself. Do you think CBT, in the context of Tokophobia, could work for someone for many people, or do you think it’s just not? Given what you know about CBT and what you know about Tokophobia, you’re just not sure whether it would work? What’s your view on using CBT? Ramona [00:45:39]: I think that every therapy has its use somewhere. My experience with CBT, especially when it comes to anxiety disorders, which talk a phobia, if we want to get really technical, we could put that under an anxiety disorder, because that’s kind of where all the phobias live. Like all the phobia diagnoses that are out there kind of live in this anxiety disorder category. The problem with it is anxiety doesn’t respond to logic. And CBT is a logic therapy where it’s like you’re challenging thoughts and you’re really learning about what your thought process is. That, of course, could be very beneficial. I’ve learned a lot throughout my course of this. Just how to shift my thinking and how to look at situations differently has definitely been helpful. So I do think that it has its place. However, I don’t think that you’re going to get full relief from a phobia anxiety disorder by just doing that. You need to have some kind of body therapy with it because you need to learn how to rewire your brain and your body to respond to fear differently. And you can’t do that when you’re scared. Your thinking brain isn’t online. We don’t have access to it. So telling someone in a panic attack to change their thoughts, they’re not even there. They can’t even comprehend what you just said, let alone change their thought. So I think that if you are going to do CBT, I would really encourage you to try something in addition to that, like EMDR Eye Movement, desensitisation Reprocessing Art, Accelerated Resolution Therapy. Those are the two that I do. I’m doing art myself with my therapist, and that’s been really amazing and it’s really proven to be effective for phobias. So that’s kind of my two cent on that. Yeah. Alexia [00:47:54]: And I would add to that I think the head trash is an energy psychology technique where the energy system is an interface between mind and body. So that’s why that can work very fast, because you’re actually accessing both through energy modalities like that so that brings you that very fast relief that you clearly went through as well with and be able to sleep better and all of that so wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Ramona, for sharing your journey. And I think that’s going to be so inspiring for those women that are suffering. And I’m going to invite you back for another conversation because I really want to dive more into this body image puberty conversation because I think there’s a lot more we can talk about there. So we will be having another conversation for those of you that are intrigued about this, because I think it’s an issue that so many women wrestle with that I cannot wait to go back into this. So we will be chatting to Ramona again very soon. But until then, thank you so much for coming on Fear Free Childbirth podcast. It’s been brilliant. Ramona [00:48:55]: Yes, I’m so happy to be here and I’m so excited to talk to you again and to everybody else. Alexia [00:49:02]: You’ve been listening to the Fear Free childbirth podcast with me, Alexia Leachman. Fear Free Childbirth is the online destination for women seeking to take the fear out of pregnancy, birth and beyond with fear clearance, meditations, self healing products and courses, professional training and specialist programs for overcoming tokophobia. And if you’ve enjoyed this episode, then check out the Fear Free Childbirth mama ship. It’s a bit like Netflix where you can binge on a boatload. More Fear Free Childbirth content to inspire you on the journey to motherhood and beyond. More interviews, views? More birth stories? More expert wisdom? Visit fearfreechildbirth.com to find out more.

In this episode of Fear Free Childbirth, I delve into the topic of anxiety and how it affects pregnancy. As someone who has personally experienced anxiety during my own pregnancy journey, I understand the importance of addressing and overcoming these fears and anxieties. Anxiety and Pregnancy Fear and control are significant themes in anxiety and tokophobia, which can intensify during pregnancy due to the numerous unknowns and changes that occur. The fear of uncertainty and the feeling of things spiralling out of control can be overwhelming. I discuss how this fear primarily exists in our minds, until a real threat is encountered. During labour, fear can arise if things are not going well, while anxiety is present before that point. Our fear radar can be influenced by society's fear messaging, making it challenging to distinguish between real threats and imagined ones. The past few years have been filled with fear messaging, but not all of it has been based on reality. In addition to the fear of pregnancy and birth, I explore how fears and anxieties can manifest in other aspects of life, such as health, relationships, parenting, work, and our professional life. I explain how patterns of conflict around control and letting go can impact multiple areas of life, and how addressing and healing these conflicts can lead to positive ripple effects. I also share my personal journey of overcoming fear of judgment and fear of losing social connections, which can cause hesitation in having children. I explore how fear of judgment and indecision can lead to procrastination in various areas of life, resulting in poor sleep quality and increased tiredness during the day. So, if you're experiencing anxiety during your pregnancy journey or simply want to understand and overcome fear in different aspects of your life, this episode is a must-listen. Here are some of the questions that I explore in this episode: How does the fear of uncertainty and change impact anxiety during pregnancy? What are some common fears and anxieties that women experience during pregnancy and childbirth? How does fear messaging from society affect our ability to distinguish between real threats and imagined ones? What role does fear of judgment play in anxiety around pregnancy and parenthood? How can conflicts around control and letting go impact various aspects of life, including pregnancy and childbirth? How does anxiety and fear of judgment affect decision-making and procrastination in other areas of life? What are some strategies or resources that can help women overcome fears and anxieties surrounding pregnancy and birth? What are some potential consequences of prolonged anxiety and fear during pregnancy, such as poor sleep quality and reliance on stimulants for energy? How can tokophobia, the fear of pregnancy and childbirth, impact a woman's journey and choices during pregnancy What can be done to increase awareness and understanding of tokophobia, and women who are experiencing it during pregnancy?   Resources mentioned during the episode During the episode, several resources were mentioned to help women overcome fears and anxieties surrounding pregnancy and birth. These resources include: 1. Fearless Birthing group: This Facebook group is focused on pregnancy and birth-related questions and concerns. It provides a ive community for women to share their experiences and seek guidance on overcoming their fears using my fear clearance method, Head Trash Clearance. 2. Clear Your Head Trash group: This Facebook group is for anyone dealing with non-pregnancy related issues such as relationships or work. It offers a space to address fears and anxieties in various areas of life and to get in using Head Trash Clearance. 3. Fear Free Childbirth courses and meditations: Fear Free Childbirth offers various courses and meditations specifically designed to assist women in overcoming...

In this episode, I'm am ed by the incredible Mars Lord, doula and activist dedicated to improving the birthing experiences of black and brown-bodied women. Ethnicity scans for women of colour Mars will shine a light on a pressing issue: ethnicity scans. We'll delve into the controversy surrounding ethnicity scans, their potential risks and benefits, and the systemic racism that underlies their implementation. We dive deep into the challenges faced by black and brown-bodied women within the healthcare system and explore ways to navigate these hurdles and ensure a fear-free childbirth. Here are some key questions that we explore during our conversation: How does systemic racism contribute to poor healthcare outcomes for black and brown-bodied people, specifically during the perinatal period? What are some specific examples of discrimination and mistreatment experienced by black and brown-bodied pregnant women within the healthcare system? How does chronic stress and anxiety, along with systemic issues, contribute to the high rates of maternal mortality among black and brown women? What are some potential solutions for improving the birthing experiences and healthcare outcomes for black and brown-bodied women? How can healthcare providers be better equipped to address the specific healthcare needs and concerns of black and brown-bodied women? What role does self-advocacy play in navigating the healthcare system as a black or brown-bodied pregnant woman? How can education and awareness surrounding ethnicity scans be increased to empower black and brown-bodied women to make informed decisions about their care? How can the healthcare system shift its focus from technology-centred care to women-centred and evidence-based care? What steps can be taken to ensure that the voices and experiences of black and brown-bodied women are listened to and heard within the healthcare system? In what ways can the healthcare system address and dismantle systemic racism in order to provide equitable and quality care for all women, regardless of their ethnicity? Resources mentioned during the episode Here are some of the resources and materials mentioned during this episode that you can use to address your fears and anxieties related to childbirth and pregnancy: Mama Ship Program: a valuable resource for pregnant individuals and new mothers. It is a hip program where you'll get access to exclusive podcast episodes and interviews, empowering birth stories, expert advice, a ive community of like-minded individuals, and a wealth of knowledge and to help you navigate your unique birth experience. This community that prioritises evidence-based care, advocates for women-centred birthing experiences, and provides a safe space to share concerns, questions, and . Mary Cronk's Phrasebook: http://www.homebirth.org.uk/marycronkphrases.htm BRAIN. BRAIN is an acronym used to help pregnant women make informed decisions about their healthcare during pregnancy, birth, postpartum, and parenting. It stands for benefits, risks, alternatives, intuition, and nothing. Mars discussed a cheat sheet that women can use to help them better navigate difficult conversations during healthcare appointments should they be offered ethnicity scans, or indeed any other procedure. This cheat sheet is available for in the Mama Ship. Episode Timestamps 00:00:23 Podcast discusses ethnicity scams and birth 00:06:33 Ethnicity scans offered to combat health disparities 00:11:19 Disparity in healthcare for black and brown women 00:14:34 Discrimination against black and brown bodies 00:21:18 Lack of evidence-based care affects women 00:23:00 Legal inquiry looks at black experiences 00:29:36 Neglecting women, favouring technology in healthcare 00:33:53 Ineffective communication creates lack of choice 00:35:14 Questioning medical procedures for better informed decisions

In this episode of the Fear Free Childbirth podcast, I chat to Heather, who shares her inspiring journey from being tokophobic to becoming a mother of two. Heather never expected to have children but decided to confront her fears for the sake of her relationship. She initially came across my work in her search for information about tokophobia and Heather ended up finding a ive community* that understood her struggle to her on her journey. *Heather took part in one of my tokophobia group programs that runs a few times a year. Find out more about my programs here. Heather shares her experience of going from fearful to fearless. She was someone who suffered with terrible tokophobia and not only went on to becoming a mother and now expecting her second, but also quit her therapy practice to set up on her own. Truly fearless! . But not only that, on As part of this chat. we discuss the need to take women's fears seriously and explore their specific concerns, rather than dismissing them. Heather believes tokophobia is not well-known enough and hopes that by discussing it, more women can receive the they need. This is something that I agree with whole-heartedly! This episode provides valuable insights for both women experiencing tokophobia and professionals ing them. I hope that Heather's story serves as an inspiration to those who suffer with terrible fears that they too can embrace the journey of motherhood. Listen to us as we explore and unravel the answers to these most pressing questions: What is tokophobia? How did the guest, Heather, overcome tokophobia? Why did she choose to have an elective cesarean? How did she feel about their experience with the elective cesarean? What resources are available for women with tokophobia? How long did it take for her to get pregnant after starting the program? How did she initially feel about the possibility of getting pregnant? Did she have any doubts or uncertainties about becoming pregnant? What is the prevalence of tokophobia among women? How can professionals offer to women suffering from tokophobia? Tokophobia, the fear of childbirth, is a complex and often underestimated condition that affects many women. Through Heather's story, I hope that you can learn about the challenges faced by those with tokophobia and how they can find and freedom from this condition. Here are some of the main themes we discuss; Navigating Unexpected Fears: Heather opens up about her unexpected path to motherhood. Initially, she didn't anticipate having children, but as her relationship grew, she felt motivated to understand and confront her fears for the sake of her partnership. Heather found solace in connecting with others who shared her fear, providing her with a safe space to discuss her concerns and gather valuable information. A Journey of Empowerment: Heather's journey began when she started one of my group tokophobia programs. Completing this program enabled Heather to overcome her fears and make an informed decision about starting a family. The availability of resources like group programs and one-on-one options proved instrumental in Heather's journey. The Surprising Reality: As Heather embarked on her pregnancy journey, she had many preconceived notions about childbirth, fearing the worst. However, her actual experiences in the hospital were quite different from what she had imagined. The she received from healthcare professionals, particularly her midwife, played a crucial role in alleviating her anxieties and creating a calming environment. Having a Choice: One essential aspect that emerged from Heather's story is the significance of having a choice when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth. She emphasises the importance of healthcare providers taking women's fears seriously and not dismissing or downplaying them. The ability to explore different options,

Welcome back to the Fear Free Childbirth podcast! After a long break, I'm bringing the podcast back. Fear of birth and pregnancy is a common experience for up to 85% of women, but it is not something to be ashamed of. The way I see it, there are two main types of fear when it comes to pregnancy and birth; Mild or Moderate Fear - this is usually due to misinformation or lack of education. Deep-rooted Fears  - typically stemming from conflicts in personal values. Addressing these fears is crucial not only for having a fear free childbirth but also for setting women up for success in motherhood. ‌In this episode, I explore the multifaceted nature of fear and how it goes beyond simple anxieties. I talk about the importance of addressing fears early on, preferably before getting pregnant, to ensure a more enjoyable and prepared pregnancy journey. I also dive into my plans for the new season, which include expert interviews, covering new topics, and exploring the mental and emotional aspects of the journey to motherhood. ‌ me in this thought-provoking episode as I delves into the importance of conquering fears and empowering women to have a fearless childbirth experience. Here are just some of the questions i explore in this episode; What are the two types of fear when it comes to birth and pregnancy? How common is fear around birth amongst women? What causes mild/moderate fear around childbirth? Are deep rooted fears easier to overcome than mild/moderate fears? What are some conflicts in personal values that deep rooted fears can stem from? Why was the Fear Free Childbirth podcast put on hold? What can listeners expect from the new season of the Fear Free Childbirth podcast? How does addressing fears and conquering them prepare women for childbirth and motherhood? How can listeners the Fear Free Childbirth podcast? What kinds of topics will the podcast cover in future episodes?   Resources mentioned during the episode Here are some of the resources and materials mentioned during this episode that you can use to address your fears and anxieties related to childbirth and pregnancy: Fear Free Childbirth Facebook Group: the Fear Free Childbirth Facebook group for more and connection. The group is full of peeps struggling with the fears, but also mamas who have come out the other end and friendly birthworkers. Find self-healing resources, including inner child wound healings, to facilitate personal transformation. Fear Clearance Starter Pack - the fear clearance scripts for the top 10 most common pregnancy and birth fears. And you can the full collection of the top 30 fears that i see time and time again when I'm working with women helping them to overcome tokophobia. The Fear Free Childbirth Shop - my shop is packed with products and self-healing resources that you can use to clear your fears and anxieties. You can buy Fear Clearance audio tracks, Trauma & Wound Healing activations, Birth Affirmations and more…. Visit the shop here. Books: Read my book to find out how you can clear your fears for a positive birth. The Clearance Club - My self healing hip that you can use to clear your pregnancy and birth fears and anxieties. Access my vault of self-healing resources to tackle anxieties in all aspects of life - not just pregnancy and birth.   Episode Timestamps 00:00:22 Fear Free Childbirth podcast is back after a break due to personal challenges. Alexia shares her experiences and why she decided to bring the podcast back. She also discusses the season, which will include expert interviews and new topics. The podcast aims to help women conquer their fears surrounding childbirth and motherhood. 00:10:00 Motherhood brings anxiety and fear at every level. The birth experience is a gateway to a transformative journey. Healing and self-care are important for mothers.

The one idea that inspired and motivated me when I started working in the birth and pregnancy space was this: the birth moment is a sacred one that has ripple effects that impacts so many people. The moment of birth creates a ripple that affects many Birth doesn't just affect the mother and the baby being born, it affects the father and/or the mother's partner too. And it affects the professionals present; the midwives, the doctors or OB-GYNs, the consultants, the doulas, and the nurses. But it doesn't stop there. Depending on how the birth goes, it will will also affect the baby's siblings, and other family . Then there's the life of the baby as he or she grows up. Our births create an emotional blueprint that we carry with us our whole lives. Our fears, our patterns of behaviour, our stresses and our anxieties are all rooted in our birth experience. If we experienced a traumatic birth, then this will affect in all sorts of mysterious ways as our fears and traumas play out. I say 'mysterious' because many people don't realise that the struggles they are afflicted with as adults probably have their roots in their birth experience. The WAY we are born - c-cection, vaginal birth, ventouse etc - can impact us too, as I've covered already quite a bit on the podcast. Anna Verwahl has done incredible work in this area if you're interested in finding out more. If, as a baby, we experience our birth as challenging or traumatic then as adults we might not go on to have children as our trauma creates fears or phobias in us. In my work ing women in overcoming tokophobia, for many of my clients the trauma of their arrival in the world is often the trauma that is at the root of their phobia. The moment of birth has far-reaching consequences. And it's for this reason that I want to help people to improve the chances or that moment being as wonderful as possible. Birth is sacred You see, when you take a closer look, the moment of birth is a sacred one. But it's not simply because it affects so many. It's because it is the creation of life. It's the moment when we exist for the first time outside of our mother and it carries such potency. The first time we look into our babies eyes is a powerful moment that can stay with you forever. Those first few hours with your baby can be like nothing you've ever experienced. But sadly, these are experiences that can be missing for those whose births are difficult. When a birth experience is a difficult one, the impact of this is far-reaching and does not only affect the mother and child. The father or partner is affected, as are the professionals present. And so the ripple expands. By focusing our energy on preparing to create the space for a wonderful birth experience to take place, we are creating the possibility for lots of people to benefit in important ways from this one birth. Conscious preparation is not just for mothers-to-be But this conscious preparation is not limited to the mother-to-be, although she can often feel like it's all on her shoulders. The father or partner also needs to be part of this, and while they might know that, it might not always be immediately obvious HOW they can the mother. If this is you - wondering how you can best your partner as you prepare for the arrival of your baby - then this interview is a must listen. Conversation with Souvereign In this interview I chat with Souvereign who helps dads to prepare for the arrival of their baby. During this conversation Souvereign shares; how his experience of the arrival of his first child made him decide to do things differently for his second how he views birth and its sacred nature practical ways on how men can their partners during pregnancy his experience on being asked to cut the cord made him feel his fascinating perspective on the cutting of the cord and why we need to wait as long as possible